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Totem cams clipping question

Original Post
Dallas Branum · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 1,135

I just bought my first totem cam, and was flipping through the instruction booklet when I noticed the suggested clipping configurations. Figure 8 in the photo below confuses me... why would this be any less safe than the clipping shown in figure 7 above that? I've wracked my brain, but can't come up with an answer. Am I missing something obvious?

See clipping configuration in figure 8.

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

Just a guess: in Figure 7, the carabiner is captive to that part of the loop. however in Figure 8 the carabiner can slide all the way upinto the into wires of the cam.

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125

If one half of the cam blows up (say one of the steel wire loop, then the whole thing comes apart w/ figure 8, but w/ 6 & 7, the dyneema loop will still be supported by the other half as the biner is clipped inside the loop formed by the sling.

chris21 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 125

It's not obvious but there is a chance of the carabiner uncliping itself if it rotates with the gate against the stiffer bartacked part of the sling.

Dallas Branum · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 1,135

Thanks all! I guess that makes a bit of sense...

Derek Jf · · Northeast · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 335
reboot wrote:If one half of the cam blows up (say one of the steel wire loop, then the whole thing comes apart w/ figure 8, but w/ 6 & 7, the dyneema loop will still be supported by the other half as the biner is clipped inside the loop formed by the sling.
this
Scottmx426 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 0

Unclipping also looks possible

mapeze · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 10
reboot wrote:If one half of the cam blows up (say one of the steel wire loop, then the whole thing comes apart w/ figure 8, but w/ 6 & 7, the dyneema loop will still be supported by the other half as the biner is clipped inside the loop formed by the sling.
That's correct. We should add an explanation in the text. We take note of that.
Joe Palma · · Stouffville, Ontario · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 35
mapeze wrote: That's correct. We should add an explanation in the text. We take note of that.
This is one of the things that makes Totem such an awesome company.
Dallas Branum · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 1,135
mapeze wrote: That's correct. We should add an explanation in the text. We take note of that.
And this is one more reason why I will be buying more totem cams.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

I would hope that one half of my totem cam doesnt blow up

Arent those wires rated for 20KN+?

;)

mapeze · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 10
bearbreeder wrote:I would hope that one half of my totem cam doesnt blow up Arent those wires rated for 20KN+? ;)
Those loading wires, when are in good condition (non frayed), break at lobe attachment point with an applied force to the cam exceeding the rated strength. If one loading wire is frayed, the cable will fail with lower forces.

It is safer to clip the sling redundant (figures 6 or 7) as just one loading wire breakage could not suppose a complete failure.
Kevin Shon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2009 · Points: 65

Think of the dyneema section as a "Sliding X" anchor. In figure 8, you are clipping into a non-redundant shelf. With figure 7, you are trapped between the "load limiters" (the bartacks). Also, the rigidity factor of the carabiner - in fig. 8 as someone mentioned, the carabiner could be held in a vulnerable position so as to unclip/flip.

Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433

Mapeze, All,

So a midst impulse buying yesterday I purchased a green totem. I had really wanted another .75 to fill out, and was waiting on a deal, but wanted to try something new and got the totem.

I would like to learn aid, merely because I here advocates say it will improve your climbing/ trust in gear all-around. However at this time I do not aid climb. Was wondering if I'll regret buying this thing, if it suits more of an 'aid-specialty' niche as opposed to general free-climbing cam. After reading a ton of reviews, I think what sold me was "If I was making a blind placement, I'd rather be doing that with a totem than anything else.". Anyway time will tell.

HOWEVER, even though I have not received this cam yet, I found the discrepancy between the best practices described in this thread, and a Outdoor Gear Lab video review by Chris MacNamara.

youtube.com/watch?v=E0KTwC8…

Starting at 45s, he first clips one set of cable-loops (I assume this is Instr. book Fig. 11). Then he goes on to clip both sets of cable loops.

Is this information inaccurate? Are these acceptable aid climbing practices? Am I just in over my head here?

Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175

Clipping the plastic instead of the dyneema is fine for advancing in aid, but if you're whipping on it I would make sure the dyneema is your attachment point instead. Same thing with BD C4s, biner to nylon webbing to minimize strength of cam in a fall. Biner to the coated wire loop weakens the cam in a fall.

EDIT: Also, if you love trad climbing, you will not even slightly regret your totem purchase.

Eric "Pig" Varley · · Nipomo, CA · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 50

I agree with Adam, you will not regret the purchase. They a great cams for free climbing. I generally agree with Chris Mac's reviews, but I really think he misjudged the Totem cams.

I bought the blue Totem (~0.3) when it first came out and was thoroughly impressed with it. I've since bought the full set of Totem cams, which are doubles to my DMM Dragons. Between my cams and my partner's BD C4s, we always rack up the Totems first. They have roughly the same range as the Dragons and C4s, but with a much narrower head width. I trust them way more than any other cam. Their only draw back is that you can't use them as passive pro, which isn't too big a deal IMO.

acrophobe · · Orange, CT · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 0

I used to lead on a set of Totems and a set of C4s. Always went for the Totems first. Finally got a second set of Totems.

If you really want the best evaluation of Totems, go back to supertopo and read rgold's comments.

My only complaint about them is that they don't make one size bigger to replace my Gold C4. Mapeze, if you are still reading this thread, please add this often used size!

Jim

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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