Totem cams clipping question
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I just bought my first totem cam, and was flipping through the instruction booklet when I noticed the suggested clipping configurations. Figure 8 in the photo below confuses me... why would this be any less safe than the clipping shown in figure 7 above that? I've wracked my brain, but can't come up with an answer. Am I missing something obvious? |
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Just a guess: in Figure 7, the carabiner is captive to that part of the loop. however in Figure 8 the carabiner can slide all the way upinto the into wires of the cam. |
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If one half of the cam blows up (say one of the steel wire loop, then the whole thing comes apart w/ figure 8, but w/ 6 & 7, the dyneema loop will still be supported by the other half as the biner is clipped inside the loop formed by the sling. |
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It's not obvious but there is a chance of the carabiner uncliping itself if it rotates with the gate against the stiffer bartacked part of the sling. |
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Thanks all! I guess that makes a bit of sense... |
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reboot wrote:If one half of the cam blows up (say one of the steel wire loop, then the whole thing comes apart w/ figure 8, but w/ 6 & 7, the dyneema loop will still be supported by the other half as the biner is clipped inside the loop formed by the sling.this |
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Unclipping also looks possible |
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reboot wrote:If one half of the cam blows up (say one of the steel wire loop, then the whole thing comes apart w/ figure 8, but w/ 6 & 7, the dyneema loop will still be supported by the other half as the biner is clipped inside the loop formed by the sling.That's correct. We should add an explanation in the text. We take note of that. |
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mapeze wrote: That's correct. We should add an explanation in the text. We take note of that.This is one of the things that makes Totem such an awesome company. |
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mapeze wrote: That's correct. We should add an explanation in the text. We take note of that.And this is one more reason why I will be buying more totem cams. |
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I would hope that one half of my totem cam doesnt blow up |
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bearbreeder wrote:I would hope that one half of my totem cam doesnt blow up Arent those wires rated for 20KN+? ;)Those loading wires, when are in good condition (non frayed), break at lobe attachment point with an applied force to the cam exceeding the rated strength. If one loading wire is frayed, the cable will fail with lower forces. It is safer to clip the sling redundant (figures 6 or 7) as just one loading wire breakage could not suppose a complete failure. |
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Think of the dyneema section as a "Sliding X" anchor. In figure 8, you are clipping into a non-redundant shelf. With figure 7, you are trapped between the "load limiters" (the bartacks). Also, the rigidity factor of the carabiner - in fig. 8 as someone mentioned, the carabiner could be held in a vulnerable position so as to unclip/flip. |
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Mapeze, All, |
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Clipping the plastic instead of the dyneema is fine for advancing in aid, but if you're whipping on it I would make sure the dyneema is your attachment point instead. Same thing with BD C4s, biner to nylon webbing to minimize strength of cam in a fall. Biner to the coated wire loop weakens the cam in a fall. |
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I agree with Adam, you will not regret the purchase. They a great cams for free climbing. I generally agree with Chris Mac's reviews, but I really think he misjudged the Totem cams. |
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I used to lead on a set of Totems and a set of C4s. Always went for the Totems first. Finally got a second set of Totems. |