Too much "beta" on MP... losing sense of adventure
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I admit, I'm older than the average climber on MP and I'm also becoming a technophobe, but MP seems to be transforming the climbing experience into paint-by-numbers. In case some of you young lads don't know what paint-by-numbers is... oh, never mind. |
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Crackhack wrote:Gonna hang out at supertopo for awhile.I laughed |
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Personally I cant fathom climbing something not knowing how many granola bars I am going to need. First ascentionists who did this, especially while not knowing the color of the rock are real gods violating every law of physics I can think of. |
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So what really bothers you is that others *do* want beta, presumably. Huh. That tells us something about you... but not much else. Just go climb. Or read the Taco, whatevs, it's all the same, right? |
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teece303 wrote:*You* don't need to read any beta you don't want to. So what really bothers you is that others *do* want beta, presumably. Huh. That tells us something about you... but not much else. Just go climb. Or read the Taco, whatevs, it's all the same, right?Hey now, if that was a personal jab, unnecessary. Just making a hopefully entertaining observation. It's not necessarily about others needing excessive beta, it's probably more about the diminishing sense of adventure, self-reliance and problem-solving. The more you do, the better you get. It's an encouragement (admittedly maybe not worded in the best way) for people to just get out and make the discovery part of the fun. That's all. |
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The message I would personally like to pass to other climbers is to please stop shouting what moves to look out for while I'm hanging and resting, unless I ASK! Know-it-alls........I like to do things my way. Save the advice for when I'm caught doing something unsafely. |
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Paul Hutton wrote:The message I would personally like to pass to other climbers is to please stop shouting what moves to look out for while I'm hanging and resting, unless I ASK! Know-it-alls........I like to do things my way. Save the advice for when I'm caught doing something unsafely.Definitely agree with this! Having beta online where people can choose to look or not look at it is fine, advice while climbing isn't unless it's specifically asked for. This applies to the actual climbing only, for me- I'm a beginner and I do appreciate help with safety and procedures, but let me try to figure out the moves myself. |
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5 years ago I was told to go fuck myself when I suggested to someone here that they didnt need to describe every move and gear placement to a tee on one of the states most classic trad lines. |
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I like having info about approaches, anchors, descent methods, etc - but draw the line at needing beta for the moves. |
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teece303 wrote:*You* don't need to read any beta you don't want to.Substitute "clip any bolt" for "read any beta". This lame rationalization doesn't work in either case. They are both instances of dumbing down a climb - not every climb needs to ne. |
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You are correct, you can also skip the bolts. |
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Why not just go further out into the boonies? I'm still finding 300+' high wingate desert towers that are unclimbed, and i've been reading stories about how there is nothing significant left to do in the desert for 10 years. |
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This is actually (since it's also great troll fodder) a good subject. It's always been the main issue with climbing guides, too. As both a climbing guide author and a access worker who has negotiated with land use managers, there is a very important reason to have recorded information about climbing areas on public land. One of the main one climbers tend to forget is that if access ever does come under threat, holding a historical use chart is one of the biggest negotiating tools we have. There are certainly very good reasons for keeping climbing quiet, especially when way off the radar, but anything that is getting used regularly, and wants to stay that way, should be recorded somewhere. And, of course, once that happens that cat is out of the bad. How do you control how much info is out there? Shoot, go to a popular crag and figure out how to not have the local "I've got everything so wired I can climb it blindfolded" not shout beta at you. |
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too much beta. not enough beta. the grades are too hard. the grades are too soft. i hate dogs. i hate kids. i love dogs. i love kids. i hate bolts. sport climbing is the best. tick marks are cheating. i remember when crash pads didn't exist. aid climbing is rad. the 60s where the best. the crag is too crowded. the gym is too expensive. where did the dirt-bags go. how come i can't climb harder. its easier because you're taller. its easier because you're shorter. |
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MJMobes wrote: I'm fine with it for a boulder or a sport route and I can understand the guy was really excited 'cause he had just led it and it was all fresh in his mind but not many trad climbers in the 5.11 and up category ask for anything besides what gear to bring and dont want to be sprayed down before sendingSounds about right to me. |
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I see the beta more as a fun thing to read about after climb. Relive it a little when I'm back at the desk. See what other people found. |
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Crackhack wrote:Not sure if this please-spew-some-beta-pic-included post is a troll or notNot a troll. I know him, he later emailed me with the picture, that's my video later in the thread. It's all real. He's on a mission this season to send all the 10's at that crag and he's stuck on this one. He's methodical, thinking analytically. He's different than you, maybe, and going about this in his way. His sense of adventure is alive and well, though. It happens to include caution and planning. We all do it differently. I think I get your message here. Let's all get offline and get out there and make our own adventure. It's romantic. I like it. It's not for everyone or every situation. In this case, it was the day after not sending. It's fresh in his mind. So fresh, it can be turned into an equation. HOW DO I SOLVE THIS PUZZLE! I've been there, turning moves over in my mind again and again. He had better luck reaching out to a local than hypothesizing with the hive mind. Lesson learned, maybe. This Saturday, though, he'll send. And, with that, he'll be one step closer to his goal. May the 2014 Barn Bluff 5.10 challenge end in glory, Pontoon! |
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I agree with Andrew Gram .There is lots of adventure in places like the San Rafeal Swell or other remote areas even with the descriptions found on MP.Possible more adventure than most of todays climbers can handle. |
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"Where is the sense of adventure?" |
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Don't look much at mountain project if you don't want beta is how I play it. |