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Time for a Trad rack!

Original Post
signewt · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 0

Sport climber from the mid-west here recently relocated to CO and it seems lots of the stuff I am interested in doing is trad or mixed.

Before anyone tells me to RTFM! I should mention I am enrolling in two different clinics on how to lead for trad and have a four day guided trip planned with a guide who focuses on teaching this summer.

I am putting my rack together and have the following:

dozen - 2' slings w/biners
six - 4' slings w/biners
dozen- quickdraws
70m rope
two - double belay devices
dozen - locking biners
two- daisy chains

In my amazon cart I currently have:

Dmm Wallnut set
Dmm torque hex set
Dmm aluminum offsets (should I swap these to brass? What is the biggest advantage?)
Dmm peenut (should I swap these to brass?)
Camalot seven piece set .03-#3

Please dissect this list and provide input as to what I should drop/add. Thanks!

Clint Walker ATX · · Austin, TX · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 566

Just going to leave this here: ABC Climbing Huevo Nut Set #1-13 ($62.95)

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

IMO way to many lockers and slings
2-3 lockers
4-6 24"slings
2 48" slings

free biners 10-12

Ryan Nevius · · Perchtoldsdorf, AT · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 1,837

Drop the hexes, get some Master Cams or Aliens.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

look at some tricams

Josh Allred · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 161

My preference:
10 Shoulder length (I like Dyneema) and 2 double shoulder length should suffice. I like to make alpine draws for craggin which requires to biners. For Alpine Climbs I wrap around the shoulder and have one. The double length I wrap around with one biner clip (both crag and alpine)
6 to 8 draws
60 meter works (70 if you prefer) I like edelrid.
Just 1 tube belay device works (and learn how to use a munter hitch in a pinch)
3 Lockers is all you need. 12 is a bit much.
I use the rope to go in straight with. 22kn of raw power. If I need to untie or going with 3 people I just use a sling. Not the safest option. If I do use a daisy, get a metolious pas.

1 set of DMM Brass offsets (RPs)
1 set of DMM Peenuts
1 set BD nuts sizes 5 to 11 or DMM Alloy offset
I wouldnt get the .3 or .4 C4s. I would get a set of X4s, Mastercams or aliens.
C4s from .5 to 3 (doubles up to 2) or equivalent (WC Heliums, DMM)

I would buy 4 to 5 extra biners to put on your harness. Always needed. Biners for all the cams and biners for the nuts.

The best advice would be to climb with someone that has a rack to learn what you like and not get your self killed.

Good luck.

Aaron Olson · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 5

This obviously depends on the area, and I am not familiar with CO. That said, I wouldn't get brass unless you are getting in to aid, if you are learning trad, there will probably be other place on the route to put gear bigger than brass.
A dozen sling draws sounds a little heavy to me. I usually climb with six long draws and six sling draws. I also take 2 or three slings around my shoulder with one biner on them each. This is nice for quickly extending cams (mine all have biners) without fiddling around with the extra biner.
Make sure one of your belay devices has a reverso function on it, so you can use it in guide mode (it should have a ring on the back side of the device, your guide should be able to show you how to use it).
Get one daisy, though clove hitching in with the rope is stronger and easier, you can create a daisy with slings if you have to rappel a route.
Most of all, ditch the hex set, get cams and don't cheap out on them. The new flex stem BD's in the smaller sizes seem comparable to the metolious smaller sizes. BD's hands down on #.5 and bigger. You won't regret it. In a year your hex set will stay at home in the bottom of your "extra trad gear" bin.

MRock · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 10

Skip the hexes and offset nuts, not much use on moderate routes, IMO. Get a set of tcu's down to blue or purple and with a bit of over lap into the camalots. Don't forget racking biners, gear sling (if you're into that) a nut tool, and a helmet! Learn how to build an anchor with the rope and ditch that rat nest of slings.

MRock · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 10

Lol we blasted that guys! Good advice in here.

Josh Allred · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 161

+1 for the guide mode atc tube style.

iceman777 · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 60

Ok ill whip this dead horse too , only because I like gear .

Standard colorado trad rack
BD cams .5-3 doubles if you can afford em , a .4 comes in handy .smaller than that go with something else (see below) you'll be climbing with a partner who at the very least will have the same so even for turkey rock with a little boldness you'll be fine. If you can only afford one set of camalots then the hexes will suffice for now .

Or one set BD C-4s .5-3 and mix it up on the second set metolius, wild country , they both have tween sized cams that can make a good second set to your BDs .often times a black metolius or wild country #2 will be a better fit for certain cracks then the camalots
Hence the tween sizes .this is a much better choice IMHO for a double set of cams.

Don't forget to look in the for sale section right here for some good deals on good used gear .esp cams .

Your choice metolius, Aliens or bd c3s or x 4s for the small stuff .
Dmm wall nuts one of my faves
Dmm alum offsets second fave
Peanuts are cool or just the larger three sized brass RP style or offset brass your choice

Ditch all the lockers except four , you can go up to six but why?
Ditch th QDs and Cary your 2' slings instead .

Later on you'll decide what you need it usually ends up being something you wish you had more of on a certain climb or something your partner has that you used on a certain climb and want one for yourself .

With the above rack you will climb just about everything you could want to

Toni Schwarz · · SLC, UT · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 10

Although I had a basic trad rack together when I came across this article, I found it helpful when filling in the size gaps:

http://web.archive.org/web/20121001074028/ backcountrybeacon.com/2011/…

Also, I don't remember who posted this cam chart, but it's really nice to compare the size differences between brands:

estk.github.io/camvis/

Good Luck!

signewt · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 0

WOW! 10 responses in a matter of moments.

Thanks yall!

Good insights here, I am going to do away with some of these nuts and look at getting a .5-4 set of BD cams and a set of the TCU's in smaller sizes. Once funds allow I will look at buying a package deal of Power Cams.

Yes I have a Mammut Smart Belay Alpine, I know it can be set up in "guide mode".

No one commented, what is the advantage of brass nuts?

Someone mentioned Tri-cams, I have read online they are good in the smaller sizes, not so much in the larger ones? Is that accurate? I have also heard they can be tough to clean.

My long term goal is for me to be able to lead and my GF to follow/clean. Devils Tower is on the top of my goal list right now, i was considering going guided there this summer but I have decided to wait, develop my skills, and not go to Devils Tower until I can lead it. It seems like a reasonable goal after a year of practice.

ChefMattThaner · · Lakewood, co · Joined May 2013 · Points: 246

DMM peenuts are really not necessary unless you are getting into aid or climb somewhere with lots of pin scars(ELDO is the only place that comes to mind in CO). Even in ELDO those aren't really needed.

Ditch the hexes and save your money for some metolius mastercams as doubles for your smaller C4's.

Offset nuts also kinda unnecessary in CO but I guess nice to have and could be nice to add to a friends rack. If you have cash to burn might as well.

A dozen lockers?!?!? Damn make it 4-5.

Also what do you need those daisy chains for?? Not as your PAS I'm hoping??

Sounds like you are putting together the beginnings of an aid rack.

Don't forget a nut tool.

Maybe an equalette and a prussick would be nice.

Out of the standard tricam set the pink one gets used 75% of the time I find a tricam placement. So save yourself $75 and just get the pink one for now.

HELMET HELMET HELMET... ya know, if you're into that type of thing.

Mike P · · Saint Louis · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 71

I am not a trad expert, but rather somebody who has only recently started to get into it. So take my responses with the appropriate serving of proverbial salt. (Really just replying to give a bit of perspective on what might be easiest to learn on.)

My complete rack is currently the following, in addition to assorted runners and biners:
BD Stoppers from #4-13
DMM Alloy Offets (complete set of 5)
Set of 4 Tricams (black, pink, brown, red)
BD C4s from #1-#3
BD X4s from #0.1-0.75
Doubles of the above cams in #0.75, #1, and #2.

As far as passive gear goes, I've found that I make use of the offset nuts far more than the Tricams or the BD Stoppers. For whatever reason, as a new trad climber, I'm finding them the easiest to place, by far.

The cams get a heck of a lot of use too, of course. For better or worse, I stuck with one brand just so that there were fewer different pieces of gear to learn. Perhaps it would have been a good idea to get a different brand for in-between sizes rather than picking up the doubles.

Andy Hansen · · Longmont, CO · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 3,130

You probably don't need a daisy chain at all... until you get into aid climbing. Either learn ways to effectively anchor yourself with the climbing rope, a triple length sling + locker or buy a Sterling Chain Reactor for use as a personal anchor system. I would suggest that you learn to use the rope as your anchor attachment over anything else.

MRock · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 10

Brass nuts are more malleable and only used in smaller sizes (RPs). They can adhere to surface irregularities easier and can "create" a match fit. Really not meant for catching a lead fall, though it has been done

Jonny 5 · · Squamish BC · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 1,220

For pro I got a set of nuts from Grand Wall (12 total). 10 Metolius Cams 1-8 and medium/large Super Cams. Metolius blue, yellow, orange TCU's, red, black, green Master Cams, purple, baby blue Power Cams and Medium, Large Super Cams. I'm happy so far with all except the green Master cam (its kind of bendy if squeezed a certain way), apart from this minor gripe it's worked out great.

I have like 7 trad draws that are like longer than my shoulders are wide when extended and 1 real long one like 4 feet. I bought a 6 pack of BD sport draws b4 I even started getting a rack, also 2 lighter wire gate metolius ones. I tend to try to rack for 10ish placements on a 30m or less climb so will try to only rack the minimal of the BD sport draws to supplement my 7 trad draws and 2 metolius quickdraws. (I'll get more of my trad setups but dang have I put into $ this, all my trad draws are petzl spirits so with the slings it adds up).

Prob 6 lockers 3 bigger 3 smaller (started with a TR anchor system containing 4 lockers) 2 thicker slings. Lots of cordelette. A PAS type device from Singing Rock I believe. I still have the ATC type device that came with my Mammut Harness and have since bought a Petzl Reverso 2 I believe.

I may have 1 or 2 more Cams than needed for the Squamish "Standard Rack" but I'm addicted. So next I'd like to get gold, silver, red WC friends to double up and be able to redo Klahanie Crack without bumming off friends any more as my roomie as a BD rack.

Anyways total noob but thats what I have so there u go.

Rob WardenSpaceLizard · · las Vegans, the cosmic void · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 130

ditch the daisy, unsafe and unnecessary clutter. I am quite fond of offsetting C4's with Wild Country HF, tech friends. I even rack up my Rigid friends sometimes. however Camalots are the shit. I would only go down to .5 anything smaller than that can give a false sense of security. Small cams are hard to access and are not tools to be relied upon when your learning to lead. Please get a helmet, falling rock with kill you the fuck dead. So can falling upside down, which as a new trad leader climbing section of pure crack will put you in harms way more often. large brass and Peenuts are great... if you have the huevos. WC Superlight rocks are also life savers in funk placements. However, like all small pro, small brass and small offsets are advanced tools that have very slim margins for use, they are harder to assess and are less forgiving and of course have lower breaking strengths. for both the Nut and the rock, so be warned, as a new leader if you place that shit... it will most likely rip. ditch the hexes, you will use them like 4 times before be called a gumby all the time makes you leave them in the closet. That being said if you have to buy them get the DMM ones. yes i have them, no I dont take them most places, sometimes when I guide certain routes they make sense.

IF YOU ARE Responsible for the safety and well being of your girlfriend when you are climbing, and most importantly if you want to keep her... make sure that you have the technical knowledge to perform a single or multipitch rescue in case the fecal particulate hits the spinning thing. get her a damn helmet too.

As for the Devils Tower, small shit is for hard routes. if you think in a year you will be climbing 11-12 on the tower, then get that small stuff or borrow it. at least in Basalt the rock quality is your last problem

Best of luck you will be lugging 30 footers on brass in no time.

Max Supertramp · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 95

MOAR GEARZ!

Brett Thompson · · Washington State · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 135

TCU's always seem to save my ass...

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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