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Emerald Lake
Routes Sorted
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Arete V8 
Beginner's Luck 
Cube V5, The 
Cube V6, The 
Dawn Patrol 
End, The 
Kind of a Big Deal 
Kind sitstart, The 
Kind Traverse, The 
Kind, The 
Kneebar 
Lobster Claw 
Mr. Wimpy 
Tiger Stripes 
Warm Up 
Warm Up Boulder 
Whispers of Wisdom 
Unsorted Routes:

The Kind 

Hueco: V5 Font: 6C

   
Type:  Boulder, Alpine, 12'
Consensus:  Hueco: V5 Font: 6C [details]
FA: Jim Hurst?
Season: Mid-Spring through fall
Page Views: 4,892
Submitted By: tcamillieri on May 26, 2009

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (51)
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Elizabeth Williams on The Kind.

Fragile Alpine Area MORE INFO >>>

Description 

The crux is making the long reach for the good slot/pocket/crimp jug (crug). Landing is fair since the boulder overhangs a small slab. Start on a left-facing jug at the center of the wall, move slightly left.

This problem was established earlier by Jim Hurst, Jim Belcer, and Dean Potter as "In Your Face" due to a large block at the top of the route that would crush your face. After it was removed the name was changed to "Standard Overhang." History noted. I have chosen to keep the name The Kind to aid in identifying the route since virtually everyone calls this the Kind.

Location 

300 yards downhill from Emerald Lake, above the wash (before a large hill climbs up on the edge of the valley of Emerald Lake) is a cluster of boulders. If you are in the center of this area, you will see the Kind in front of you, the Kind Traverse(s) (V11) move left from the Kind. Turn around and there is a roofy V6, and to the right of this is a roofy V9 (that rarely gets done). Downclimb the V0 at the far rightside of the boulder to get down or just walk off the backside.

Bonus Climbing:
There is a V7 sit that uses a left facing sidepull and a right hand crimp. Hard move to a bad left hand pinch and then a tension move to a right hand side pull. Fire up to a good left hand sidepull on the Kind and finish the Kind.

Another V7 (or 8?) starts on the jug to the kind and takes a right hand gaston with a good thumb catch left heelhook and make a hard move to a decent left hand crimp. Reach up to a good crimp with the right, match, then traverse right to finish the kind. This is called Mr. Wimpy.

To my knowledge the direct finish has yet to be completed (risking a tree in your back), but beware I've broken dinner plate size holds off this climb.

Protection 

2 pads and spotter.


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Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Jun 20, 2014
By jason seaver
From: Estes Park, CO
Aug 7, 2009

I thought this was called "In Your Face".
By tcamillieri
From: Denver
Oct 18, 2009

No.
By jason seaver
From: Estes Park, CO
Oct 24, 2009

After your matter-of-fact response, tcamillieri, I asked around to see where my memory of the "In Your Face" name came from. This is what I found out:
This problem was established in the summer of '92 or '93 by Jim Hurst. He called it "In Your Face" because there was a good-sized block that threatened to dislodge into your face while you were yarding on it. The following summer Jim Belcer and Dean Potter, along with Hurst, repeated the problem, and succeeded in pulling the block off. Since the "In Your Face" name no longer made sense, the three of them agreed to call it the "Standard Overhang". That same summer they started to work on what would become the Kind Traverse the NEXT summer. But as far as I am told from the from the guys that were climbing here in the EARLY '90s, this problem was never called The Kine or The Kind. I suggest changing the name to the Standard Overhang.
By tcamillieri
From: Denver
Oct 27, 2009

While it may have been called that, I don't think that the FA'ist's name is going to stick in this case (as happens with so many boulder problems, e.g. Slander).
By jason seaver
From: Estes Park, CO
Oct 28, 2009

Whether it "sticks" or not, this here is a climbing database. The actual names of problems and routes, and the history of their development, should be preserved and should take precedence over a later generation's ideas. Just because these guys did all these problems long before they got popular doesn't mean the next crew gets to rename them. Have some respect. If "The Kine" absolutely HAS to remain in the name it should appear AFTER the real name.
And what does "aka (also known as) Slander" mean?
By Peter Beal
From: Boulder Colorado
Oct 28, 2009

Perhaps "Standard Overhang" was not the most original or memorable name to choose. I have always heard this called The Kind.
By Chip Phillips
From: Broomfield, CO
Oct 28, 2009

I too have ALWAYS heard this called "The Kind." Respect for The Standard Overhang name should presumably be given, regardless how uninspiring it is.
By tcamillieri
From: Denver
Oct 28, 2009

Jason,
Thanks for the history lesson. Be glad to start a discussion forum (note guideline #3 on this here database), and let you know my issues with the name. Word.
By jason seaver
From: Estes Park, CO
Oct 29, 2009

Despite what you may think, this is not a rant. It is an attempt to get the first ascent information recorded correctly in this database. A discussion about the most, and least, inspiring route names would probably belong on the forum page. Your "issues" about the name would probably belong there too since they have nothing to do with the name of this problem.
Are people still saying "word"?
By Chip Phillips
From: Broomfield, CO
Oct 29, 2009

While I agree Jason, I can't help but yawn a little. Boulderers from all over the world know this problem as The Kind. However, it's nice to finally know who was first to start tooling around putting up problems near Emerald Lake. I knew Ian Glass and Jim Belcer were early on the scene, but Jim Hurst is new name I had not heard before. Thanks for that cool bit of info!

A related example is The Monkey Traverse, which was known for 20 years as The Long Traverse before Benningfield's guide changed that. However, in that case, the FAist was unknown, nobody really cared and the name stuck.

"The Kind" from The Kind Traverse (NOT "The Kine") has been known by that name by everyone I know for ~10 years. Boulderers from all over the world know it by that name. If Jim Hurst, Jim Belcer and Dean Potter decided on name "The Standard Overhang" ... SO BE IT. However, I would prefer that Jim Hurst himself weigh in on the issue if "The Kind" is no longer listed as an AKA.

My 2 cents, I'm out on this issue.
By tcamillieri
From: Denver
Oct 29, 2009

I don't think people say Word anymore. I just think it's funny. I've made a note of the history in the problem description as well as my reasons for keeping the name The Kind. It's recorded, and the history is there, but I also think that the function of this website is to help people go climbing and going with the name the community has given facilitates this.

My "issues" with the route impact the way that I choose to name the route. While I'm more than glad to have a discussion of them (with all tangents are pseudo-questions that delve into the names of routes and what the should be called--I admit a philosophical side project for me), I've cited my reasons for naming the route the way it is. I have also received a few emails from administrators that offer no consensus on the issue. If MP would like to have an official stance, than by all means I would comply, but as long as route information is posted by individuals I think they should do so as they see fit while taking into consideration the views of others. I have done this and don't see a need to push the issue further.
By Roy Leggett
Oct 29, 2009

To quote Tcami....
"I've cited my reasons for naming the route the way it is"
"route information is posted by individuals I think they should do so as they see fit while taking into consideration the views of others."

T,
1. You didn?t name the route....you entered it into a database, and incorrectly too I might add.
2. Jason was not offering his "view" on the matter; he was correcting you and informing us.

I find it interesting that the route heading went from: The Kine, to The Kind aka Standard Overhang, to The Kind.
Your intentions to help people find the problem may be legit, but it is not respecting the origins and educating the people. It seems like you are trying to win a petty power struggle. And how do you feel about the misnamed boulder problems in Horan's guide?
IMO, the route should be headlined in this database: Standard Overhang aka The Kind.
By jason seaver
From: Estes Park, CO
Oct 31, 2009

Very sorry to have bored people with the history of this problem. I honestly submitted it in hopes that people would appreciate the info and correct the mistake. Alas, it seems as if tcam is the authority on what to call things and he sees no need to push the issue further. Perhaps we could at least get Jim Belcer's name spelled correctly in the ever-so-gracious history paragraph? Or, if tcam has seen fit to change Jim's last name to Belcher, maybe someone could let me know so I can inform Jim of the change.

Thanks Roy, for showing me that not ALL climbers have gone completely nuts. Maybe it's just the pebblers....
By tcamillieri
From: Denver
Nov 9, 2009

Roy,

I would like to point out that "I" did not name the problem. The consensus of the community that boulders in the park knows this problem as The Kind.

In respect to Horan's guide, he has nothing to do with the communities that have been climbing up there and so my opinion is that HE named the climbs and that privilege does not belong to him, it does not belong to me, it belongs to the community.
By Andrew Vojslavek
Nov 22, 2009

I find this to be an interesting debate. What role does history play in a climb?

The original name should have it's place noted, I agree with this. Nevertheless, I have never heard this climb called anything but The Kind, to help other climbers seeking this climb, I feel it is important to use the most well known name.

If I were climbing in Emerald lake and a fellow climber asked me, "Where the standard overhang is?" Until recently I would not be able to help them locate this rock climb. However, if a climber asked me "Where is The Kind?" I could help them locate this climb in a heart beat.

In short respect the past, however, current names, or well known names of climbs allows us all to communicate in a clearer fashion.
By Roy Leggett
Nov 22, 2009

"I"! The Royal "we"! You know, the editorial........(The Dude)

When I first got on this problem 10 years ago, it was described/named as Standard Overhang to me. Obviously there are some different communities at play here. I personally will choose to respect the pioneers of the area, remember the history and will continue to know it as "Standard Overhang". But, since I donít boulder up there anymore and since the "royal we" of "the community that boulders in the park" needs to know this as the Kind, I digress.
Have fun.
By JPVallone
Jun 27, 2010

I just sent this problem and I'm stoked. This problem is so dope, YO!!! and most of the bouldering up there is so whack!!! I didn't know there was bouldering up there. I just thought there was that big crazy-looking, scary face up there in the cirque, but my homiez told me you needed ropes and gear to go up there and crazy stuff like that. That shitz whack, yo!!!

Anyway this problem is the shiznit, but I am so confused now. I have to keep a log of my sendz to keep my sponsors happy, Bro. You know it is, yo. You with me on dat? So what do I call this dope ass problem?

Thanks tcamillieri for taking the time posting all these pebbles up there and keeping us up to date with the factz, bro!!! Most people on here just want to rant it seems, but I appreciate that Shit, YO!!!! Some good steeze, homie!! It's easy to get lost up there and walk by these classic problems, and you know what else is whack is sometimes I think I did the problem, but I find out later I was on the wrong side of the pebble or maybe even the wrong pebble all together. But your efforts to keep me on the right lines have helped me tick my prodges, bro!!!

Thanks again, but can you tell me what to call this in my log book, Bring some rest to the debate of this thread, too, I have to get my resume in soon to me sponsors, YO!!!

Peace out Yo, Word!!!!!
By tcamillieri
From: Denver
Aug 13, 2010

Funny.
By Colin R
From: Ottawa, ON
Aug 27, 2010
rating: V5 6C

Great line regardless of the controversy surrounding the name.
By jim hurst
Jan 1, 2011

I called it "in your face," but all that matters is that it's a reference for finding the problem. We name boulder problems so that we can say which one we want to go to next. FYI, it took years to find people willing to walk that far for mere bouldering.
By Bronson
From: Estes Park, CO
May 21, 2011

Great to hear from Jim Hurst, FA of "in your face", "The Standard Overhang", aka "The Kind". Well, I guess you have it from him and all know the name, so there shouldn't be any questions. Also, Jim was right, not many wanted to hike that far to go bouldering and there were barely any people who liked to boulder living in Estes at this time period.
By KCP
From: Eldorado Springs, CO
Jun 8, 2014
rating: V5 6C

Classic at the grade. Nice forearm warm-up for the harder problems in the area.
By Dominic Rickicki
Jun 20, 2014

I think you mean move slightly right not left from the start jug.