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The Gunks are way worthy!
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By BigA
Oct 19, 2012
"there are still much better deals in climbing".

Nobody argued that there weren't. R gold just pointed out that in this case, the deal is still worth it...

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By Andy Laakmann
Site Landlord
From Bend, OR
Oct 19, 2012
Racked and loaded... name that splitter behind me? Hint, its on Supercrack Buttress
My wife and I paid $155 for two annual passes. We climbed 5 days. Worth every penny.

And, for what it is worth, I've logged hundreds and hundreds of days in JTree... and.... never thought I'd say it, the climbing in Gunks might be better. Though JTree will forever hold a special place in my heart.

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By Colonel Mustard
From Reno, NV
Oct 19, 2012
Colonel Mustard
BigA wrote:
"there are still much better deals in climbing". Nobody argued that there weren't. R gold just pointed out that in this case, the deal is still worth it...


He did so by comparing two things that don't really compare at all, and others like myself are trying to compare like subjects. I haven't once argued it's not worth it, for whatever that's worth. I'd love to visit the Gunks.

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By RockinOut
From NY, NY
Oct 19, 2012
Gear
I forget if it was Climbing Mag or Rock n Ice that stated the gunks is the most expensive place to climb foot for foot. Of course they were referring to the most expensive option... having to rent a room at the mountain top resort and getting a guide to climb at sky top. With the longest route it came out more per foot than going up everest. I was trying to find the article but the search function on their site isn't working.

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By rgold
From Poughkeepsie, NY
Oct 19, 2012
The traverse out to the Yellow Ridge on the Dogstick Ridge link-up.  Photo by Myriam Bouchard
Colonel Mustard wrote:
Not accurate, rgold. For instance, I pay $40 a month for hundreds of hours of access to a gym...He did so by comparing two things that don't really compare at all, and others like myself are trying to compare like subjects.


Oh, it's accurate all right, and you're the one who is mixing up the comparisons. I'm comparing the visitor who comes to the Gunks for a day or two to the person who just visits a gym to a day or two. The prices are about the same.

Moreover, there is a difference in both Gunks and gym fee structure between day rates and long-term rates. For what it costs the good Colonel for two months of gym access, he could have a full year of gunks access---no contest, Gunks are way cheaper if you are going to base your calculations on long-term rates.

P.S. A number of figures have been tossed around. Current rates for climbing are $17/day and $90/year, and two climbers from the same household are $150/year.

Population density and the accompanying development pressures make the mid-Hudson region significantly different from the West. The Gunks is smack dab in the midst of the densest urban conglomeration in the country; it is a miracle that it hasn't been subdivided among very wealthy landowners and/or resorts; those prospects have arisen in recent years, have been beaten back only by concerted efforts, and we may not be so lucky in the future.

The Preserve has been a bulwark against a huge and still-growing tsunami of development. A gym day-fee for the privilege of such an area still being there for climbers is a bargain. But if it seems too much and keeps some people away, so much the better. As it is, the lots are all full on good weekend days.

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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Oct 19, 2012
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.
Andy Laakmann wrote:
My wife and I paid $155 for two annual passes. We climbed 5 days. Worth every penny.

As Cheap as 1 day at a ski resort.

Andy Laakmann wrote:
I've logged hundreds and hundreds of days in JTree... and.... never thought I'd say it, the climbing in Gunks might be better.

What is great about the Jtree-house is the time of year you can climb there. Save for that, I'd go elsewhere. IE: City of Rocks.
Each place has it's merits. Around Halloween/Early November, the Gunks leaves are a changin' and the Great Pumpkin delivers candy to the tops of climbs, a cool tradition.
And we Front Rangers miss good color at the cliffs, so there is something to be said for that.

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By Rob Kepley
From Westminster,CO
Oct 19, 2012
Yosemite Valley..
Does anyone else find it hilarious that the person arguing the most about this has never even been to the Gunks?

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By Colonel Mustard
From Reno, NV
Oct 19, 2012
Colonel Mustard
rgold wrote:
Oh, it's accurate all right, and you're the one who is mixing up the comparisons. I'm comparing the visitor who comes to the Gunks for a day or two to the person who just visits a gym to a day or two.


Then this is a comparison for those who travel far and wide to sample different gyms just for a day or two? Who might go to, say, NYC, and really scratch their head in considering whether they are going to the gym over the Gunks?

I go to the gym only when conditions or my schedule do not allow for outdoor climbing. It augments, rather than competes with outdoor climbing. The comparison you made fails drastically in that regard alone. With very little exception, I go to the same gym year-round on the same fee schedule (unless I put a hold on my gym fees if I'm out of town for an extended time. Say, visiting the Gunks). I never travel around sampling gyms as I would climbing areas. I suspect these conditions are true for many climbers.

It's still apples and oranges for me. Indoor and outdoor climbing aren't comparable in my book. The few here who still don't get it and think I'm arguing against the fee, or whether the Gunks is a worthy area are truly lost. The analogy stretches too far and simply fails to ring true in my personal experience.

I will stop arguing because clearly tradition dictates that rgold is always right when it comes to duh Gunx. Btw, I still can't wait to pay my $17! I have a free pad lined up nearby, I just need the air fare and vacation time.

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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Oct 19, 2012
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.
Rob Kepley wrote:
Does anyone else find it hilarious that the person arguing the most about this has never even been to the Gunks?

To the contrary, it's so cliche that it is expected.

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By JCM
From Seattle, WA
Oct 19, 2012
Colonel Mustard wrote:
The few here who still don't get it and think I'm arguing against the fee, or whether the Gunks is a worthy area are truly lost.


I must be lost, then. If you aren't arguing against the fee, what are you arguing?

Not trying to stir the pot here, just perplexed.

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By Will Stat
Oct 19, 2012
This thread isn't about how expensive it is to climb at the gunks... It's about how amazing it is. The price of a membership is relatively insignificant.

During the autumn months I wouldn't give it up for anywhere else in the world.

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By Colonel Mustard
From Reno, NV
Oct 20, 2012
Colonel Mustard
Jon Moen wrote:
I must be lost, then. If you aren't arguing against the fee, what are you arguing? Not trying to stir the pot here, just perplexed.


It's about how I wouldn't pay the fee thinking: Wow, I'm sure glad I got to pay that on top of everything else! And I get to pay this tomorrow too! Wheeeeee!

I still think it's expensive compared to other like areas (and that comparing the Gunks to anywhere else really gets up the local ire too). More in terms of the visiting climber, as I have been shown what the deal is for locals.

Also, that comparing gym to outdoor climbing just doesn't work. Although, that was admittedly more just gnit picking.

If nobody sees it and thinks I'm just a guy who must really have some balls to dare speak anywhere near the complex awesomeness of the Gunks, even to broach more general issues of cost, and gym vs. outdoor climbing, then that's their vaunted, Gunks-like opinion.

Mostly, it was about how I was a bit grumpy yesterday ;).

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By Jon Clark
From Philadelphia, PA
Oct 21, 2012
onsight soloing Atman
camhead wrote:
[warning: elitism ahead!] My favorite thing about the Gunks is if you lead harder than 5.10, you'll almost never wait in line for anything. Try that at Indian Creek.


This is quite true and I think due to the fact that many 5.11 and up climbs at the Gunks are extremely involved and difficult to protect. Not many plug and chug affairs. In addition, the climbs at these grades often have cruxes containing hard for the grade boulder problems.

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By P. Sully
Oct 21, 2012
@ Grayson Highlands somewhere up near Rhody Gap
fer fooks sake people, if you live in NY the moola for a pass if worth it. If you are a visiting climber, it is a high price for a day of climbing. But if you are visiting NY, then everything is expensive, so just roll with it and enjoy the Gunks!

much better value if you can lead 5.10 BTW

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By Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
Oct 21, 2012
The West Desert...it's not just for climbing, suckers! <br /> <br />Photo by Samantha
Rob Kepley wrote:
Does anyone else find it hilarious that the person arguing the most about this has never even been to the Gunks?

Very hilarious!

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By Colonel Mustard
From Reno, NV
Oct 21, 2012
Colonel Mustard
Ah, how cute.

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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Oct 22, 2012
Stoked...
I live in CT about 1:45hr drive away. I used to visit the gunks a lot to climb in the last 15 years. Spent many many a night in MUA, a friend's cabins and farms, and I've really enjoyed the Gunks in my years of climbing but honestly I've made the decision it's not worth it to me. I'd love to go up there for a few days a year and climb but the reality is when I want to climb (weekends) the place is a complete and utter cluster fuck. I climb hard but my gf doesn't which puts me in a particular scenario about routes etc. but even with other hard crankin partners it remains the same. It's easily $50 in gas and almost $40 in day pass or for a two days $70 in day passes. On the other hand we can drive 45min-1hr and be in central CT which has thousands of documented routes for free. So for $30 in gas you don't get multi pitch routes but you get ample parking, all but empty crags, miles of cliffs, etc etc.

So as a sorta close local my rational is that yeah the passes are worth it compared to a day pass, $155 or $180 whatever for two, but then there's the $50 in gas each time you visit. So right off the bat you're in the hole at least $20 extra per trip + toll fees (vs. other areas around CT free & no tolls). You're also trying to go as much as possible now to recoup your serious purchase so your now more prone to spend that extra gas money. So you're tacking on all these extra miles now and paying more gas to just try to use these gunks bucks you've bought into trying to bring down your per visit costs. All the while paying more and more in gas. Ultimately, why bother really if it's not in your backyard (like someone in CT as myself? It's always going to be more expensive then visiting anything else within CT or Mass despite how low you get your avg. per day cost. The routes are great but after years of climbing horizontal to horizontal to horizontal to crimp to horizontal, it can get a bit monotonous.

I'm not sure if this will be totally coherent, on my first cup of java... I figured it could be helpful to explain how a die hard semi local comes to the rational to pass on the gunks time and time and time again.

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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
Oct 22, 2012
modern man
I'd like to brag about how when I go there to climb 5.10 its no problem getting on anything but I cant because 10s there are hard as hell and 9s are my limit right now.

I will say that getting on anything from 5.5-5.9 is way easy any day of the week if you look around a tiny little bit. the place is huge and only about 1/3 of the lines ever get climbed.

I also prefer to be a little more green about the driving/gas cost on my wallet and the enviro too, I pretty much climb local these days.

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By Be Esperanza
From Asheville, NC
Oct 22, 2012
OKellys Crack, J Tree
I want to apologize in advance for talking about it, but I'm from the West, and I just can't get over the roofs I climbed this weekend. If you like steep stuff, check out the OBED, in TN.

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By Brian
From North Kingstown, RI
Oct 22, 2012
Eiger summit
fair weather climber wrote:
...I will say that getting on anything from 5.5-5.9 is way easy any day of the week if you look around a tiny little bit. the place is huge and only about 1/3 of the lines ever get climbed.


Right on Mike. If people can't find lots of open climbs they just aren't looking very hard or bothering to walk more than a few hundred yards down a flat road from the Uberfall. There are 495 documented climbs just in the Trapps and at any one time you can probably get on 395 of them. I've even walked by super classics like Arrow and High E on busy weekends and they were open. If you really want to get away from the crowds walk a mile or so down to the end of the Trapps where there are quality climbs and few people.

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By Ed Bustamante
From accord
Oct 22, 2012
a1
Tony B wrote:
Sooo... Andy. Have you been to the Red or TWall?

the cost of an annual climbing membership for ,mohonk preserve is 85 bucks and 15 bucks more if you are going to bike as well

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By GMBurns
Oct 22, 2012
Climbing at Morro Anhangava in Southern Brasil. <br /> <br />(photo by Isa Vellozo)
Don't forget the free climbing might be on the way out for the 8th year in a row. Add that to your expenses! wooo!

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By BigA
Oct 22, 2012
Don't forget the amount of legal climbing in the gunks that is accessible without day passes...

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By Gunkiemike
Oct 22, 2012
BigA wrote:
Don't forget the amount of legal climbing in the gunks that is accessible without day passes...


OK, I'll bite. I'm a long time Gunks local and I'm having trouble coming up with any legal, free climbing. Bonticou? Table Rocks? Nope - Mohonk Preserve. Ditto for Lost City and all the published crags. Peterskill? Nope, it's MSPP/PIPC land. Dickie Barre, Gertrude's Nose, Palm. Ravine, Hamilton Point? Nope, all off limits. Shevchenko? Nope, also Minnewaska land and so no legal climbing there. Ice Caves and Cragmoor? Nope, it's Sam's Point Preserve... no legal climbing there.

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By BigA
Oct 22, 2012
I didn't say free, just accessible without day passes :) (ie alternate parking). Which I suppose clearly changes the legality then, such as entering Preserve property without a pass. I rescind my statement...

Except for any DEC land, which is still free and legal

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