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The Devils Lake top rope cluster Fu&k thread...
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By TravisK
From Madison
Jul 23, 2014
Waiting out the rain at Devils Lake State Park, WI
I cant even...
I cant even...


A thing of beauty!

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By Tom Lausch
From Madison WI
Jul 23, 2014
Chips and Salsa
I love the opposite opposed locker that is going through one piece. Must have been running low on slings! HA

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By Al Wiberg
Jul 25, 2014
Mixed Climb @ Casket Quarry, Duluth MN
It still amazes me how social media works. I took this photo back in early June while assisting with a PCIA course on Brinton's and posted to Facebook and now it made it here!

Devils Lake is a fantastic place to climb and a great place to teach anchor courses for this reason! Students get plenty of opportunities to walk around and critique poorly constructed anchors and see how they can improve the marginal ones.

If you are new to climbing and even a "seasoned" climber, please look a taking a professional level climbing course from an organization such as PCIA, AMGA or PCGI. All these organizations offer great courses and you will be amazed how much you will learn!

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By Tab Yaj
From Minneapolis, MN
Jul 30, 2014
July,2014.
July,2014.

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By Bob Woods
From Appleton, WI
Aug 6, 2014
These sketchy anchors remind me of some that I've seen people set at high cliff from time to time just a few weeks ago I came up on an older guy which surprised me slightly but age doesn't necessarily equal experience who had a 15 foot piece of webbing tied to a bench and a old biner not even over the edge of the sharp cliff face so his rope was rubbing on the edge and was rappelling down to belay his 16 year old kids, what a great dad (sarcastically)

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By al grahn
Aug 7, 2014
Andreis, you really squeezed a pimple here, didn't you? I've been climbing at the Lake for about 35 years. So I guess I'm an "old geezer". I don't see this as a conflict between the "Geezers" and the "Young Guns". Climbing is multidimensional. If you've only climbed in the gym and at sport crags, you've only explored one dimension. There is, and should be, room in the wide world of climbing for practitioners of all the styles and dimensions of the sport we all love, from high altitude mountaineering to alpine climbing, to hard crag climbing with gear only, to aid climbing, etc. Thankfully, I meet and talk to young climbers who are interested in all of these other aspects of the sport. For many climbers learning to set top rope anchors is the first step toward exploring the wider world off climbing. It's safe to say that no one would go to an area that has been developed as a sport crag and start pulling bolts. The bolt wars were hashed out in the nineties. Likewise, not every climb and every crag needs to be safe for democracy. Many people of all ages and levels of experience crave the sense of adventure and satisfaction that comes from mastering the skills necessary to do routes that require much more than the power and gymnastic ability to pull hard moves. I think all of us who consider ourselves traditionalists respect sport climbing as a fun and valid style of climbing. So, Andreis, I think you owe the same respect to the many people of all ages who stand behind the established Devils Lake ethic. In the words of my good friend Tommy "back down chumpster!" As has been pointed out, it is moot anyway.

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By James M Schroeder
From Sauk County, WI
Sep 29, 2014
Coffee outside of JTNP
First of all put me down for a +1 on this - great words Al.

al grahn wrote:
Andreis, you really squeezed a pimple here, didn't you? I've been climbing at the Lake for about 35 years. So I guess I'm an "old geezer". I don't see this as a conflict between the "Geezers" and the "Young Guns". Climbing is multidimensional. If you've only climbed in the gym and at sport crags, you've only explored one dimension. There is, and should be, room in the wide world of climbing for practitioners of all the styles and dimensions of the sport we all love, from high altitude mountaineering to alpine climbing, to hard crag climbing with gear only, to aid climbing, etc. Thankfully, I meet and talk to young climbers who are interested in all of these other aspects of the sport. For many climbers learning to set top rope anchors is the first step toward exploring the wider world off climbing. It's safe to say that no one would go to an area that has been developed as a sport crag and start pulling bolts. The bolt wars were hashed out in the nineties. Likewise, not every climb and every crag needs to be safe for democracy. Many people of all ages and levels of experience crave the sense of adventure and satisfaction that comes from mastering the skills necessary to do routes that require much more than the power and gymnastic ability to pull hard moves. I think all of us who consider ourselves traditionalists respect sport climbing as a fun and valid style of climbing. So, Andreis, I think you owe the same respect to the many people of all ages who stand behind the established Devils Lake ethic. In the words of my good friend Tommy "back down chumpster!" As has been pointed out, it is moot anyway.


Second here's another good one from this past weekend:


Umm...
Umm...

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By Tom Lausch
From Madison WI
Oct 1, 2014
Chips and Salsa
I dont even know what is going on in that last one. I don't even see the edge of the cliff. God forbid one of those blows. The extension on that would be scary.

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By James M Schroeder
From Sauk County, WI
Oct 1, 2014
Coffee outside of JTNP
Tom Lausch wrote:
I dont even know what is going on in that last one. I don't even see the edge of the cliff. God forbid one of those blows. The extension on that would be scary.


Or sole the biner that is cross-loaded over an edge fails, or any part of the cord fails. If either of those non-redundancies goes, then the whole thing fails - catastrophically. When confronted with some suggestions about how to improve the setup, the owner of all that shiny new gear insisted that my partner and I didn't know what we were talking about, and that he (in his vast experience) was certain the anchor was bomber.

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By Tom Lausch
From Madison WI
Oct 2, 2014
Chips and Salsa
James M Schroeder wrote:
Or sole the biner that is cross-loaded over an edge fails, or any part of the cord fails. If either of those non-redundancies goes, then the whole thing fails - catastrophically. When confronted with some suggestions about how to improve the setup, the owner of all that shiny new gear insisted that my partner and I didn't know what we were talking about, and that he (in his vast experience) was certain the anchor was bomber.


Just tell him you wont be carrying him down the stairs when it does blow.

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By Dylan B.
Oct 13, 2014
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008
On top of Brinton's Crack, 10/11/14
On top of Brinton's Crack, 10/11/14


So this photo has two anchors. The one on the far right, set by our thread-sponsor Mr. Jugenheimer, consists of three cams in a crack, well equalized.

It's the other that is of interest. We appear to have a loop of static line, with two pieces of pro acting as directionals. A single piece of blue webbing in the middle provides redundancy.


The cam and sling pointing to the right are part of a different anchor.
The cam and sling pointing to the right are part of a different anchor.


This piece of pro has a steel biner in it, with the static rope just wrapped loosely around the biner. This is not a knot, not a clove hitch, and doesn't appear to do anything except hold the loop of rope in place.


The other pro
The other pro


The wrapped rope is more visible in this one. Again, not a knot or a hitch; it's just wrapped in there.

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By Dylan B.
Oct 13, 2014
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008
The last one, at least I could tell what the builder was trying to do. This is completely bewildering.

Bewildering
Bewildering


I believe this was set on Boy Scout (5.3).
Some strange sheet of plastic, hanging from the anchor by a thin piece of nylon clothesline
Some strange sheet of plastic, hanging from the anchor by a thin piece of nylon clothesline


Note the two steel biners, not opposite or opposed, at the "master point." The webbing has no tension on it at all.

Wut?
Wut?


I'm pretty sure this is not a failed attempt at making a clove hitch. I'm pretty sure this is how the anchor was built on purpose.

Wut?
Wut?


Wut?
Wut?


Now that I'm looking closer, it appears to be just like the other anchor: a loop of static line redirected through two biners, "backed up" with a loop of webbing.

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By Chris treggE
Administrator
From Madison, WI
Oct 13, 2014
This problem haunted my dreams for 6 years after failing to send in 2008.  Finally got throw a heel over the lip jug -- now I can sleep.  Photo Darin Limvere.
Not to change the subject, and this may be related in fact. Does anyone have any info about the "climber" (?) who fell this past weekend?:

wkow.com/story/26762577/2014/1...

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By BigFeet
From Texas
Oct 13, 2014
There is some scary stuff out there!

Dylan,

What in the world? I don't even... can't understand... where to start!

Is the ice cube tray there to protect the rope from abrasion, maybe?

There appears to be all kinds of wrong going on in those photos. The only thing I noticed that looked solid was that the figure eight knot was correctly tied. Where the eight is positioned and everything that follows looks horrible.

Did you set this up just to take a picture and post this? No, couldn't be, for it is too intricately assembled to be the case.

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By Tom Sherman
From Bristol, RI
Oct 13, 2014
John Sherman
Dylan,

I think that falls into the same something category. That looks like that anchor will fail. Am I too understand that nothing is a single line and if anything in the loop blows its game over? What about that biner in 2nd & 3rd to last pic? Was that steel? That thing is just waiting to be ripped apart, then the eight on a bight flys around and that's it...

The tragedy is going to be when this person gets the unknowing first time climber killed instead of themselves.

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By Dylan B.
Oct 13, 2014
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008
BigFeet wrote:
Is the ice cube tray there to protect the rope from abrasion, maybe?


That was my only hypothesis, and it didn't seem like a very good one.

BigFeet wrote:
Did you set this up just to take a picture and post this? No, couldn't be, for it is too intricately assembled to be the case.


LOL. The day was too gorgeous to waste my time setting fake anchors to amuse the denizens of MP forums.

Tom Sherman wrote:
Dylan, I think that falls into the same something category. That looks like that anchor will fail. Am I too understand that nothing is a single line and if anything in the loop blows its game over?


Yes. I think if you cut the static line, the only backup would be the loosely dangling piece of webbing; there would be a dramatic swing and a major shock load on the webbing. I don't remember if the pro holding the webbing was good or not.

Tom Sherman wrote:
What about that biner in 2nd & 3rd to last pic? Was that steel? That thing is just waiting to be ripped apart, then the eight on a bight flys around and that's it...


I believe that's an aluminum Omega Pacific Jake Screw-Lock. They make great belay biners and work really well for power points.

The thing about these "anchors" is that the strength of the parts is so much in excess the forces that a a TR fall is going to generate that I really wasn't worried about these climbers dying. The trees and boulders are not going to blow, and the static line is not going to break. Worst case scenario here is that one of these directionals pops and there's a 10-15 foot fall with a huge swing. Even that seemed unlikely. Maybe I should have said something, but I didn't.

Much scarier Saturday was the n00b who rappelled off my anchor while having his n00b buddy shout half-assed directions from the ground on how to put yourself on rappel.

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By jon jugenheimer
From Madison
Oct 13, 2014
hi
Chris,
I talked with a ranger, it was a hiker....he said "a climber fell" when I asked him for details. I asked what wall? And if he was roped in. " I don't know the walls, but he didn't have any ropes or anything". I go, oh, so he was hiking. "No, he must have been bouldering around, he was a boulder".

This ranger obviously doesn't know climbing, which is ok, but he also said that in all his time of 2 years at the park and the 8 years of his other ranger buddy, no actual climber (with climbing gear) has had an accident.

The hiker in question should be ok, at least the way the ranger I spoke with made it sound.

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By jon jugenheimer
From Madison
Oct 13, 2014
hi
Dylan, you beat me too it. I took the same pics! Freeking wacky TRs out there this weekend.

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By Dylan B.
Oct 14, 2014
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008
jon jugenheimer wrote:
Dylan, you beat me too it. I took the same pics! Freeking wacky TRs out there this weekend.


Yeah. We didn't take pictures of the one in bedroom amphitheater because the team was still there building it (took them more than 45 minutes) when we left. They had trees and boulders bandaged in webbing like a sprained ankle wrapped in an ace bandage.

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