The Blade of Damascus 

I have never felt like it is cheating when a climber stems on or uses a rock feature that is reachable from a climb. It is illogical and contrived to avoid using a part of the rock that is obviously reachable or usable. Having said that, it is up to any climber to make a route harder by avoiding certain handholds or footholds - maybe they prefer to make a climb harder for themselves or "train." However the climbers who choose to use the handholds and footholds that are present are not cheating, they are simply using the rock features that make the route what it is. Of course, moving away from the line the route follows is called being "off-route."

Just my 2 cents.

+1^^^^

Hey Joel & Eric. I generally agree, however I mentioned not using the back wall b/c many people will not be able to reach it. Manny & I are on the tall side, with big wing/leg spans. Since many wouldn't be able to stem it seemed a bit like cheating to use it, and frankly IMHO it isn't nearly as much fun that way. Of course everyone is free to climb it however they want.

Also FWIW if one can always use whatever they want then several boulder problems (and all sit-starts) are no longer valid.

Give the route a try sometime. I would enjoy hearing what you think! If people still feel it is contrived then I am happy to change both the info and the rating to reflect that.

Cheers!

Border Patrol on Mt. Lemmon has the same issue. Fortunately the route grade doesn't change much if one stems behind them. Most people don't even notice the option and climb it without the stem.

Bouldering is a different animal as a lot of bouldering involves eliminates.

With routes I try not to dictate where people climb. You gave us the info so folks can do what they like. The rock gives us the holds be they where we want them or not. Sounds like a good route either way you do it.

Hey Mike, thanks for the response. Didn't mean to indicate that I thought anything was contrived. I was just sharing my thoughts on the idea of cheating when something is reachable. Your reply make sense. Also, I agree with you and Eric that boulder problems are of a different nature of course, as you must be "hands off" to stay on the problem.