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The AAC and Access Fund. Kiss or Kill?
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By other
From San Diego, CA
Nov 19, 2012

john wilder-then give $1000/year. Many people think the AF DOESNT keep crags open and shirks its duty, it tells people to contact the local access groups. You donate time doing what? The trails are built. I don't see a need to fix them when they arent broken. The clean up days clean up other people's trash-not climbers. our tax dollars and fees already go to public lands where many climbing areas are.
if youre donating time lobbying elected officials-thats great.
get something straight-if we spend more on non climbing gear purchases you wont have a job in the climbing store.
don't lecture people that are better educated and have jobs making more then minimum wage. thank you


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By other
From San Diego, CA
Nov 19, 2012

sally thanks for your work on rock and ice and access fund. Please don't act outraged when a charity/political action group - AF-that solicits and gets lots of donations from companies and people is questioned and held accountable.


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By Tim McCabe
Nov 19, 2012

Jonhy Q wrote:
Quite a report from the outdoorindustry.org. It seems like this might be the group to most effective to spearhead a lobbyist campaign for outdoor recreation. Sadly, if you notice, we don't even make the list of top outdoor activities, biking does though, I wonder why?


Makes sense to me. Their counting every bike sold in the country. From kids bikes to high end. How many families have bikes? Lots I should think, and people lay out thousands for bikes everyday.

Do you really think that all mountain bikers agree, some of us who ride may be more inclined to side with conservationist.

I know here in Tucson the MTB community would love to carve bobsled runs into the mountains. But there's no way the local conservation movement would stand for it.


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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Nov 19, 2012

other wrote:
john wilder-then give $1000/year. Many people think the AF DOESNT keep crags open and shirks its duty, it tells people to contact the local access groups. You donate time doing what? The trails are built. I don't see a need to fix them when they arent broken. The clean up days clean up other people's trash-not climbers. our tax dollars and fees already go to public lands where many climbing areas are. if youre donating time lobbying elected officials-thats great. get something straight-if we spend more on non climbing gear purchases you wont have a job in the climbing store. don't lecture people that are better educated and have jobs making more then minimum wage. thank you


The AF is directly responsible for keeping crags like the PMRP in the RRG, the Lower Town Wall at Index, and the Holy Boulders open. Directly. The AF is currently spending hundreds of hours a year trying to reverse the bolting ban in Red Rock. The AF tells people to contact their local organization because the AF doesnt want to come stomping in and piss off locals if there is an LCO present. They prefer to work directly with an LCO in order to ensure community buyoff and not just the word of one dude in an area.

Trails degrade, erode, spider trails get established and cause more erosion and destroyed plant life. This pisses off land managers and makes things look bad. We should all donate time and practice good stewardship- if you dont see that, then you're turning a blind eye to a major problem.

Ever been to Red Rock or the RRG? You think climbers dont leave trash? And so what if it is other peoples trash? Whats wrong with taking care of the land?

Crags get closed all the time. Go down to the RRG- I've climbed there for all of three years and seen at least one major crag get closed, and my local friends tell me they've lost many crags due to climbers being selfish and inconsiderate to the land and the landowner.

The folks at the Access Fund are my friends. They are also some of the hardest working people I know. They work with limited funds and a handful of people to try and ensure every crag in the country stays open. Do they succeed every time? No, but they go down fighting every time they possibly can. If you dont care about the access to your crag- you're not alone. If you think its not your problem- you're not alone. If you think that you can stand there and make assumptions about who I am and how much money I make- then, sadly, you're not alone. The reality, though, is that the AF is a very necessary organization and without them to assist poorly organized (and some well organized) and even less well funded LCOs, I guarantee that we'd lose more and more crags every year because of 'its not my problem, i do what i want' climbers.


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By Tradoholic
Nov 19, 2012

The AF etc are great, but anything can be better. So instead of everyone getting their undies in a bunch how about we talk about making those organizations better.


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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Nov 19, 2012

Red Tagger wrote:
The AF etc are great, but anything can be better. So instead of everyone getting their undies in a bunch how about we talk about making those organizations better.


of course they could be better- they're all human, and they're also extremely under-funded. there's loads of things the AF could be doing better. much of it could be fixed if climbers would step up and participate.


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By Tradoholic
Nov 19, 2012

John Wilder wrote:
of course they could be better- they're all human, and they're also extremely under-funded. there's loads of things the AF could be doing better. much of it could be fixed if climbers would step up and participate.


Simply guilt tripping people into participating won't be effective. What sort of things can the AF etc implement to attract more participation?


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By Mr. Holmes
From Cascade West
Nov 19, 2012
#2

other wrote:
Many people think the AF DOESNT keep crags open and shirks its duty, it tells people to contact the local access groups.



"Catch a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish..."

It would be impossible for the small staff in the Boulder office to, not only keep tabs on every crag, but do something about it.

It is a simple numbers equation: The if the Access Fund can ENABLE local climbers to take interest and investment in their local crags, ORGANIZE, then ACT with Conscientious intent, there is no limit to what can be done for our climbing resources. It should be noted too that they have taken on the lofty task of attempting to prmote all forms of climbing (Traditions, Sport, Mountains,Ice, Boulders.)

They are also the first to offer face to face or phone conference support with those that threraten access- in short, they provide the support for the local climber to be able to sustain the resources we use.

I agree that one of the worst things that can happen though is to spray all night and all day thinking that one person's opinion is the right one. The strength of our climbing community is in it's diversity as much as it's passion. We can all contribute in different ways- that person you chastise for making minum wage is quite possibly the first to show up on a trail day. Making six figures a year? sweet! Pull out your check book and put a deposit down on


How can the Access Fund do more? By having climbers like us step up and work poractively BEFORE there is a fire to put out at their local crag.

A wise old Owl sat in an Oak
The more he saw the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard
We aren't we like that wise old bird?


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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Nov 19, 2012

Red Tagger wrote:
Simply guilt tripping people into participating won't be effective. What sort of things can the AF etc implement to attract more participation?


Hell if I know- if i knew the answer to that, my local LCO and the AF would have 100x the members they do now.

I simply do not understand why people dont have any inclination to give back (either financially, with a little time, or both) and take care of the lands they recreate on. I do not understand why everyone doesnt take one day out of their year to do a trail day or a trash cleanup, or whatever. If they did, we wouldnt even be having this conversation and orgs like the Access Fund wouldnt even need to try and justify their existence.


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By other
From San Diego, CA
Nov 19, 2012

This is going in circles-we all agree that access is good, safe anchors are good, insurance is good and new gear is good.
We all should send Pro climbing emails and call land managers, bueuacrats and politicans. It's free.
With infinate resources all Deserving causes and groups will be funded and staffed to the hilt. Most of us don't have infinate resources. I for one pick my choices carefully. I pick up my own trash-not every pigs litter. With high gas prices I pick my road trips carefully. There are lots of deserving causes in the world. I think most climbers will write a check or do pro access work but not both. I think most climbers will be conflicted choosing between a new rope, harness and gear, climbing gym membership or the equivalent monetary donation to climbing orgs.
This is where the wealthy Climbers and successful companies that sell $500 jackets made in China should step up.


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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Nov 20, 2012

other wrote:
I think most climbers will write a check or do pro access work but not both. I think most climbers will be conflicted choosing between a new rope, harness and gear, climbing gym membership or the equivalent monetary donation to climbing orgs. This is where the wealthy Climbers and successful companies that sell $500 jackets made in China should step up.


most climbers dont. probably less than 5% participate in stewardship of any kind.

and wealthy climbers and successful companies do step up- they're the ones funding the AF and AAC.


FLAG


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