By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Jan 9, 2013
| Not to get terribly off tangent, but it's a tough call on the whole TR / Leading ice conversation. There is a massive influx of ice climbers on the front range, and quite a bit of them are at the far end beginners, lacking in the basic ethic and skill sets. I'm not sure if it's crossing over from a sport climbing ethos, but as Tits said their is quite a bit of BS now. This obviously includes throwing ropes down on leaders, poor "ice management" aka dangerous behavior and a general sh*tty attitude by people that want to sleep in and still TR everything. Toss in "guides" that bring groups of 8-12 up to extremely limited resources (i.e. Hidden falls..really?) and it's a real sh*tshow. It just seems that across the board there is a real sense of ice entitlement, just to give it a name.
I'm not a great leader by any means so I do my far share of TRing, so my opinion isn't to call anyone out. I guess I'm lucky that the people I've climbed with in general had that wake up early and earn your climb mentality.
Of course this is just the interweb, but hopefully some of the the people leading beginners out to learn the ice game can pass down some of the more old school ethics. I think it's too late to stop the hoards and it's not up to us to say who can climb what; however it's not too late to show new climbers a better way to go about it.
IMHO... | 
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By MarcDurant
From Boulder, CO
Jan 9, 2013
| Might be time to move the annual ethics discussion to another thread?
Was out at Overflow on Sunday (1/6). Plenty of ice, actively forming on the far left, getting old in the middle and right sides. The trail is boot-packed the whole way.
The big slabby flows way up on the slope of Thatchtop look good, but if you head up there DON'T follow the tracks I left - I went the wrong way and ended up thrashing up a big snow gully instead of finding the ice. You'll want to go farther left than my tracks in order to reach the ice. |
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By Mike Krowka
Jan 9, 2013
| I want to add that the shift to more newbies climbing ice is comparable to the new cohort of less-skilled backcountry skiers out there currently. They are a danger to everyone. They have little idea what they don't know, and are likely to cause issues with themselves, the people in their group and the people around them. In this way, we should thank our lucky stars very few of them are trying to lead ice, as more of our days would probably be taken up by evacuating injured climbers. |
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By Cale Hoopes
From Sammamish, WA
Jan 9, 2013
| +1 to getting this thread back to conditions and away from ethics & etiquette. |
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By Tits McGee
From Boulder, CO
Jan 9, 2013
| Cale Hoopes wrote: +1 to getting this thread back to conditions and away from ethics & etiquette.
Ethics and Etiquette are what ice climbers talk about when there are no ice conditions to report. |
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By coop
From Glenwood Springs, CO
Jan 9, 2013
| +2
Cale Hoopes wrote: +1 to getting this thread back to conditions and away from ethics & etiquette. |
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By Ted Eliason
From Westminster, CO
Jan 9, 2013
| | Firehouse Right, 01/05/2013.
Submitted By: Ted Eliason on Jan 9, 2013
|
Thought I would upload a photo from the Firehouse Area from Saturday. Firehouse Pillar is not in yet. Lowe Gravity has not touched down but Eastern Xpansion has and the two can be connected across the bolted traverse. '2nd Leftmost' is covered with smear ice to the bottom 6'. East of West was fully in and West of East was plastic on top. We did not visit Staircase or RD amphitheater but the reports were that they were a zoo, and very thin for this time of year. |
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By Drew McLean
From Colorado
Jan 10, 2013
| We climbed Martha yesterday (January 9th 2013). No ice on p4 and thin is on the p5 crux. A very fun outing either way. The snow was very soft and spring like. Due to the warm temps it felt like we were climbing in May.
| Peter Holben cruising up the middle of the couloir.
Submitted By: Drew McLean on Jan 10, 2013
|
| Finishing up the crux section near the top of the climb.
Submitted By: Drew McLean on Jan 10, 2013
| |
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By Justin Deal
From Denver, CO
Jan 10, 2013
| Scott McMahon wrote: Not to get terribly off tangent, but it's a tough call on the whole TR / Leading ice conversation. There is a massive influx of ice climbers on the front range, and quite a bit of them are at the far end beginners, lacking in the basic ethic and skill sets. I'm not sure if it's crossing over from a sport climbing ethos, but as Tits said their is quite a bit of BS now. This obviously includes throwing ropes down on leaders, poor "ice management" aka dangerous behavior and a general sh*tty attitude by people that want to sleep in and still TR everything. Toss in "guides" that bring groups of 8-12 up to extremely limited resources (i.e. Hidden falls..really?) and it's a real sh*tshow. It just seems that across the board there is a real sense of ice entitlement, just to give it a name. I'm not a great leader by any means so I do my far share of TRing, so my opinion isn't to call anyone out. I guess I'm lucky that the people I've climbed with in general had that wake up early and earn your climb mentality. Of course this is just the interweb, but hopefully some of the the people leading beginners out to learn the ice game can pass down some of the more old school ethics. I think it's too late to stop the hoards and it's not up to us to say who can climb what; however it's not too late to show new climbers a better way to go about it. IMHO...
I was just asking about the descent/climb to get up there without leading. I do lead. Ice and trad. Trad for three years and this is my first year to lead ice. I've been climbing ice for three years and the people who taught me have been doing it almost ten. I get up at 430 in the morning and get to my climb by 8 usually, with my big boy pants on and a full set of good manners and very legit anchor building skills. I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew on lead but I do want to climb whatever I can. I would never rappel down on someone or drop a rop or ice on someone from the top of a climb(unless I'm climbing and ice comes down naturally). I'm sure all you MTN Project die hard forum hardasses who somehow have tons of time to dick around on online forums instead of climb all started out leading WI 4 so you never had this problem. Maybe one of you should start a how to be a badass forum so I can waste time reading it instead of climbing and learn myself a thing or two. |
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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Jan 10, 2013
| Justin Deal wrote: I was just asking about the descent/climb to get up there without leading. I do lead. Ice and trad. Trad for three years and this is my first year to lead ice. I've been climbing ice for three years and the people who taught me have been doing it almost ten. I get up at 430 in the morning and get to my climb by 8 usually, with my big boy pants on and a full set of good manners and very legit anchor building skills. I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew on lead but I do want to climb whatever I can. I would never rappel down on someone or drop a rop or ice on someone from the top of a climb(unless I'm climbing and ice comes down naturally). I'm sure all you MTN Project die hard forum hardasses who somehow have tons of time to dick around on online forums instead of climb all started out leading WI 4 so you never had this problem. Maybe one of you should start a how to be a badass forum so I can waste time reading it instead of climbing and learn myself a thing or two.
I wasn't even responding to your post, hence not quoting it. Honestly I didn't even see it.
My post wasn't directed at nor initiated by your post; in fact I say that I'm not a great leader, so I'm on your side. It was just an observation about the general shennagagins at the ice crags. |
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By Will Butler
From Boulder, CO
Jan 10, 2013
| Justin Deal wrote: I was just asking about the descent/climb to get up there without leading. I do lead. Ice and trad. Trad for three years and this is my first year to lead ice. I've been climbing ice for three years and the people who taught me have been doing it almost ten. I get up at 430 in the morning and get to my climb by 8 usually, with my big boy pants on and a full set of good manners and very legit anchor building skills. I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew on lead but I do want to climb whatever I can. I would never rappel down on someone or drop a rop or ice on someone from the top of a climb(unless I'm climbing and ice comes down naturally). I'm sure all you MTN Project die hard forum hardasses who somehow have tons of time to dick around on online forums instead of climb all started out leading WI 4 so you never had this problem. Maybe one of you should start a how to be a badass forum so I can waste time reading it instead of climbing and learn myself a thing or two.
Once again let's stay on topic of an "Ice conditions Thread."
Skied to below Grace Falls in RMNP this weekend and the ice looked super solid. Plenty of mixed potential in the area as well. I wouldn't get on the North Face though if you paid me. |
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By Paul-B
Jan 10, 2013
| Will Butler wrote: Once again let's stay on topic of an "Ice conditions Thread." Skied to below Grace Falls in RMNP this weekend and the ice looked super solid. Plenty of mixed potential in the area as well. I wouldn't get on the North Face though if you paid me.
Will, A: thanks for getting us back on topic. B: Why would you not want to get on the North Face? Windloaded etc, or personal aversion? C: You skied in, did you find that worthwhile with the amount of snow present? I skied in last week on the east side of the park and was very disappointed I lugged in my relatively heavy skis/boots, carried my ice boots, because there was so little snow I could have boot packed as quickly. Love to ski approach if its worthwhile. |
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By Drew McLean
From Colorado
Jan 11, 2013
| Has anyone checked out Boulder Canyon ice recently? |
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By Mike Pharris
From Longmont, CO
Jan 11, 2013
| Drew McLean wrote: Has anyone checked out Boulder Canyon ice recently?
nothing even starting to form really. |
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By gunter
Jan 11, 2013
| Anyone been up total abandon or blind assumption lately? |
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By Will Butler
From Boulder, CO
Jan 11, 2013
| Paul-B wrote: Will, A: thanks for getting us back on topic. B: Why would you not want to get on the North Face? Windloaded etc, or personal aversion? C: You skied in, did you find that worthwhile with the amount of snow present? I skied in last week on the east side of the park and was very disappointed I lugged in my relatively heavy skis/boots, carried my ice boots, because there was so little snow I could have boot packed as quickly. Love to ski approach if its worthwhile.
Paul, we skinned in all the way from Bear Lake to Odessa Lake. The trail was completely covered the entire way and was quite fun in and of itself. Fun ski down too as it's 90% downhill.
The reason I wouldn't get on the North Face is that the bowl above the first few pitches looks wind loaded and there's a bunch of snow that you'd have to trudge through to get to the upper pitches. Grace Falls looked quite safe though and is definitely the largest portion of ice I saw in the valley. |
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By Rocky_Mtn_High
From Arvada, CO
Jan 11, 2013
| Loved this video! (Steve House and partner on mixed climbs in Ouray) |
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By eric kramak
Jan 12, 2013
| Swung my tools around the falls area of Castlewood Canyon for a bit this morning. Lots of fatty, plastic ice bouldering to be had. Everything I got on was very solid. The creek is quite low right now and the ice can be easily accessed by scrambling down into the canyon at the falls. |
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By funkyicemonkey
From Colorado
Jan 13, 2013
| Redstone area still very dry. Avacado gully not in at all, Drool still hardly there, Falls are limited actually its all just bad. |
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By tom bohanon
Jan 13, 2013
| GW falls and Hidden Falls just getting fatter and fatter by the day. Just did my 4 lap on the former today...via the R hand ramp just R of the main/steep L curtain on GW falls. |
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By Tguns
Jan 13, 2013
| isitin.createaforum.com/index.php
I just created this forum so we can post just ice conditions and hazards, not mindless BS about who dropped a rope on who and how burly you are at climbing. I love mountain project but i am sick of this forum! |
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By Lee Smith
Jan 13, 2013
| I saw some people climbing on the Georgetown flow right next to I-70. This is a serious no-no and you will get ticketed. |
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By Brian marsh
From Snowmass
Jan 13, 2013
| tom bohanon wrote: GW falls and Hidden Falls just getting fatter and fatter by the day. Just did my 4 lap on the former today...via the R hand ramp just R of the main/steep L curtain on GW falls.
From today climb. |
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