Technical Ice tools, Help me choose

I have it Narrowed down to a few, any info or experience with these models i have narrowed it down to would be greatly appreciated.

Grivel Quantum Tech

Quarks

Camp- X All Mountain
X Dream

Ben, whats up brother. Been a while man, and no, have not had looked at that one but will check it out.

Looks like from your choices you looking for mostly an ice tool? Go cobras you won't regret it.

Roswell,

It all depends on what you are looking for in your tools.

If you are looking for long alpine routes than the Camp X-All Mountains are the way to go. I have a pair which are awesome and they dont do half bad on waterfall ice.

I would stay away from the Quarks as the Camp ones are much better and a lot of people who I talked to suggested the X all mountain over the quarks.

Now if your looking strictly for a tool to climb waterfall ice than I hear the X Dream is pretty sweet but I have not used them. Just hearsay.

Best of luck!

Stay away from Quarks and go with Camp? Really?

It's almost laughable to read such a statement.

Do what you want. I'm so tired of hearing opinions from people who are probably just repeating something he overheard from someone who was just repeating it from some other source.

Just get the Quarks.
Or, the cobras if money is not an option.

Hey,

Those tools are pretty different among each other. What are you going to use em for?

X-All Mountain is an alpine tool mostly...
Quarks are a decent all-around tool
Grivel's are a bit aggressive
X-Dreams are the most aggressive (like a Nomic)

What are you going to be doing with them?

I've used most of the tools and currently own the Cobra as my "all around tool" with a Sum'tek as my alpine "axe" to go with. That sorta covers everything I need.

Wouldn't mind having some Nomics or the X-Dreams for mixed/ice...

Cale pretty much called it. As have others.

Difference in how they climb by catagory? Not much. Pick the color combo you like. You'll likely not go wrong.

Grivel Quantum Tec?
same catagory and performance as:
Quark
Cobra
Viper
X all mountain
Matric Tech

X Dream?
same catagory as
Trango Rator
Nomic
Fusion
Fuel
Ergo
Monsters

+1 on the Quark. One of the better tools listed here I think. None of them are bad. All will climb harder than most anyone talking about them.

May be worth a read:
coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

What was your primary reason for deciding against the DMM Apex tools Roswell?

Great information guys, I really appreciate it. I will be using the tools mainly for alpine and vertical ice. Nothing to technical yet as I am just getting into alpine and ice climbing. I could have iterated on that a little bit more.

I was beginning to move towards the X-all mountain. I also want an pair I can use for a long time as I move into more aggressive ice and overhangs. So with that in mind the quarks might be better.

Truthfully Tom-o Sapien, it really just came down to preference. I just never really felt like the DMM's were for me.

I've ad the quantum techs for two seasons now and love them. Super light, great for pure waterfall ice and alpine routes. You really cant go wrong with them

I would happily climb WI-anything with the tools in your list. They're seriously all good.

If climbing steep dry terrain there's no question that the X-Dreams are the best of your list. Matching and bumping moves are easier and more stable with the grip design. It's not an issue in gently overhanging and juggy mixed terrain like Roman Candle (M8), but it makes life much easier to get in and out of figure fours or when hooking thin crappy edges.

Tom-o Sapien wrote:What was your primary reason for deciding against the DMM Apex tools Roswell?

Really nice tool...but such a bad shade of green :)

You should try all of them.. the Petzl Quarks, the Cassin All mountains and the X Dreams and see yourself what feels right. Make your own choice. I can give you the name and contact information of an AMGA guide who owns every ice tool on the market. For $200 you can try every one and then decide. You could also attend either the Adirondack or Mount Washington Valley Ice fests to demo the above tools you have narrowed down.

Either way you'll have access to a number of tools and someone with experience to run things by. Both are helpful when deciding.

Roswell wrote:I was beginning to move towards the X-all mountain. I also want an pair I can use for a long time as I move into more aggressive ice and overhangs.

Roswell, that pretty much sums up what I was looking for when I set out to get tools. I ended up with the X-All Mnts, and they have been pretty amazing. There is a thread or two around here on MP discussing them in length. Don't write them off too quickly. They are a hint heavier than the quarks, but have an amazingly balanced swing, and are aggressively curved to the point, where the grip is actually at a similar angle to the Nomics, in spite of it not being offset. They are also easy on the wallet.

They work great on long technical/mixed alpine routes, I've taken them up vertical ice, and done overhanging mixed and dry. Are they the best tool at everything? Very unlikely (dry-tooling with Nomics feels definitely more stable, especially matching), self arrest and plunging is better with the old-school straight shaft, but it's a great all-arounder. And with replaceable spikes, grips, and $35 picks I can't see how you can go wrong. It's def a tool that will grow with you...

I love my X-All Mountains. I honestly don't notice that much of a difference between them and Nomics/Cobras on ice, except for the lighter head and difference in swing. Performance wise they do well. Was just up at Grotto Falls in Banff and Brent (who penned the new beautiful select guidebook) glanced around and noted, "Nomics, Nomics, Nomics, Nomics, and one pair of Cassins". I was the odd man out. The Canadians seem to favor the Nomics.

The X-All mountains can climb with the big boys just fine IMO and you don't feel ridiculous whipping them out on more moderate alpine lines.

Nomics are pretty nice though.

One suggestion? Get yourself to an ice fest and DEMO tools. Then choose. Very good results doing that. And for cheap starter tools? I started with the BD Reactors. Very good learning ice tools. Not good for alpine but sometimes you can find a pair for $200 (I did and I learned a lot using these in 3 seasons).

You can get the BD Reactor ice tool for $109 each from Gearexpress with free shipping! That's quite a bargain.

gearexpress.com/p-2120-blac…

ChooChoo wrote:You can get the BD Reactor ice tool for $109 each from Gearexpress with free shipping! That's quite a bargain. gearexpress.com/p-2120-blac…

Yes it is a bargain. I would however disagree on some of the previous comments. Reactor is a good all around tool, including technical alpine climbing. A few in Scotland that prefer them over newer tools actually. Durable...

Thanks to everyone for all the help in choosing a tool. Cannot say how much I appreciate all the valuable information and the time you all took to leave such detailed information on which tools to choose. I have an older pair of Alien straight shaft that will get me through for a while and I am going to try to make an ice fest so i can test out various tools before I buy again. Thanks again guys for giving me the information that I needed.

I do agree with Dane on durability. And they might be a fine alpine tool, however if you're just getting into alpine climbing, the leashless handle into the snow on that tool is awkward in the dagger, self-belay, self-arrest positions in my opinion. Although, they CAN be used as an alpine tool and at $109 what an awesome starter tool! I think you should go for it on the Reactor's.

Roswell I received the DMM Apex tools yesterday via post. Thank you for the sale.
I'm tuning up the picks before I get them out on the ice (hopefully) later this weekend.
They have a very similar swing, pick angle and first time thunk feel as my DMM Rebels (at least when swung into wood).

Dane, yes the green color choice is obscure, but I kind of like it. Thank you for your blog and your contributions to this site.
Tom-o