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Mar 26, 2012
me on my redpoint
So I have be playing around with using the super 8 or bunny ears figure 8 for my anchors. It is a good knot for two bolts or you can clove two pieces of gear on one of the loops. I also use a bunch of clove hitches of rope on each point of an anchor then bring the loops together and tying a figure 8 on a bite to equalize them all. How do you guys use the rope as your anchoring sling? Dave Cummings
From Grand Junction, CO
Joined Jul 3, 2007
213 points
Mar 26, 2012
I use this self equalizing 2-loop figure 8 knot quite often. All you need is one extra carabiner. Make super 8, but pull one loop MUCH larger than the other.

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Rob P.
From Bay Area
Joined Sep 28, 2008
259 points
Apr 15, 2012
Rob- I am sure you know this, but because you said you use this setup often I just want to make sure you understand the risk with a non-redundant anchor like this - 1 rock fall, 1 line cut, 1 free fall.

Personally I wouldn't use a setup like this, ever. But I have had a line cut from rock fall.
samsonight
Joined Jul 12, 2011
25 points
Apr 15, 2012
so wise and important
samsonight wrote:
Rob- I am sure you know this, but because you said you use this setup often I just want to make sure you understand the risk with a non-redundant anchor like this - 1 rock fall, 1 line cut, 1 free fall. Personally I wouldn't use a setup like this, ever. But I have had a line cut from rock fall.


Yea, I think alot of people climb on one rope. Rob's setup is bomber.
Jeff Hanson
Joined Mar 12, 2012
6 points
Apr 15, 2012
Jeff Hanson wrote:
Yea, I think alot of people climb on one rope. Rob's setup is bomber.

Actually, Rob's setup is not bomber. Cut the big loop and the whole anchor falls apart.
GTS
Joined Sep 11, 2008
0 points
Apr 15, 2012
I must misunderstand something. Looking at the below picture, if the rope sheared at the red mark, wouldn't the whole anchor fail (rope running through both points)? Thanks either way, I'd be psyched to learn something new.

anchor
anchor


samsonight
Joined Jul 12, 2011
25 points
Apr 15, 2012
samsonight wrote:
I must misunderstand something. Looking at the below picture, if the rope sheared at the red mark, wouldn't the whole anchor fail (rope running through both points)? Thanks either way, I'd be psyched to learn something new.

You are not missing anything. I think they were thinking of a real bunny ears setup, not the one pictured.
GTS
Joined Sep 11, 2008
0 points
Apr 15, 2012
Me and Spearhead
Samsonight, I was seeing it the same way. if the rope fails anywhere above the 8 then the whole anchor fails.
Maybe I'm missing something
Brent Apgar
From Out of the Loop
Joined Oct 20, 2007
142 points
Apr 15, 2012
so wise and important
You are missing the fact that it is the climbing rope. If a rock cuts the rope just after your tie-in knot you would die also. Jeff Hanson
Joined Mar 12, 2012
6 points
Apr 15, 2012
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
samsonight wrote:
I must misunderstand something. Looking at the below picture, if the rope sheared at the red mark, wouldn't the whole anchor fail (rope running through both points)? Thanks either way, I'd be psyched to learn something new.


What are the odds that the rope would shear at exactly that red dot. I bet that red dot is making it weaker. Is that a laser pointer. But, come on. Falling rock hitting that red dot!
Greg D
From Here
Joined Apr 5, 2006
960 points
Apr 15, 2012
me top roping crazy alice
If you tied another knot in the longer loop. And clipped the carabiner to it, it would be redundant. Problem solved DennisT
From Fairbanks
Joined Aug 5, 2010
5 points
Apr 15, 2012
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
DennisT wrote:
If you tied another knot in the longer loop. And clipped the carabiner to it, it would be redundant. Problem solved


Oh shit. One of you guys. Is it gonna be equalized then? You just opened 4 pages of debate.
Greg D
From Here
Joined Apr 5, 2006
960 points
Apr 15, 2012
me top roping crazy alice
Haha , sure why not. Wasn't trying to debate just fix the "redundancy" issue. And why wouldn't it be equalized? We use knots in sliding x's don't we? DennisT
From Fairbanks
Joined Aug 5, 2010
5 points
Apr 15, 2012
Mathematical!
DennisT wrote:
If you tied another knot in the longer loop. And clipped the carabiner to it, it would be redundant. Problem solved


Then it would be virtually the same as a regular super 8 anchor, just with extra steps to achieve the same effect. Although to be fair, it would be easier to adjust the lengths of the loops if you set it up the way you've described.
Finn the Human
From The Land of Ooo
Joined Jul 11, 2008
123 points
Apr 15, 2012
me top roping crazy alice
Yea, I guess you are right. I would just use a regular super 8 anyway. It's faster but then again I'm certainly not an expert DennisT
From Fairbanks
Joined Aug 5, 2010
5 points
Apr 15, 2012
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
DennisT wrote:
Yea, I guess you are right. I would just use a regular super 8 anyway. It's faster but then again I'm certainly not an expert


So now you are equalized and redundant. But wait. Shock load? If the biner fails you're gonna shock load the piss out of that dynamic rope and default into an American Death Triangle. This is redundant failure mode. Definitely gonna die.
Greg D
From Here
Joined Apr 5, 2006
960 points
Apr 15, 2012
me top roping crazy alice
In that case just pray on your way down. Haha just to be a smart ass, how about opposite and opposed biners? :) DennisT
From Fairbanks
Joined Aug 5, 2010
5 points
Apr 15, 2012
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
DennisT wrote:
In that case just pray on your way down. Haha just to be a smart ass, how about opposite and opposed biners? :)


Sorry. You can't smart ass on top of a smart ass comment. Instead of making it a redundant thread, you just double negatived. Fuck. You just canceled our comments. I already said "shock load dynamic rope". We are triple fucked now.

And since we were in redundant failure mode, we are now 2 to the 3rd power. 8 times screwed. If you have ever been screwed you know it is never lubed making it 4 times rude. 4 times 8! Shit, shit shit shit.
Greg D
From Here
Joined Apr 5, 2006
960 points
Apr 16, 2012
me top roping crazy alice
Guess I'm the slow poke who didn't realize that. There goes my attention to detail. DennisT
From Fairbanks
Joined Aug 5, 2010
5 points
Apr 16, 2012
Hey thanks guys! Really nice of you completely derail what could have been an informative and interesting thread.

What is it about building an anchor with the climbing rope that bothers people so much that they feel they must belittle those that choose to do this?

With that being said...

I'm curious why the added step in that anchor that was posted of adding the extra biner? If you're clipping to solid bolts why to you feel the need to "equalize" them?

I would not use that simply because it adds steps that add nothing but some perceived solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Leeroy
Joined Feb 4, 2012
3 points
Apr 17, 2012
Leeroy Jenkins wrote:
Hey thanks guys! Really nice of you completely derail what could have been an informative and interesting thread. What is it about building an anchor with the climbing rope that bothers people so much that they feel they must belittle those that choose to do this? With that being said... I'm curious why the added step in that anchor that was posted of adding the extra biner? If you're clipping to solid bolts why to you feel the need to "equalize" them? I would not use that simply because it adds steps that add nothing but some perceived solution to a problem that doesn't exist.



Good grief, try not to take offense to everything on the internet, it just isn't healthy. I must be missing the negative remarks about building the anchor out of the rope...but without the carabiner in the above pic it creates an American Death Triangle.

Personally, I don't like the anchor pictured above, I prefer the regular bunny-ears instead but that's based largely personal preference.
Tipton
Joined Jun 22, 2010
23 points
Apr 17, 2012
That looks like a 2 piece version of a rescue anchor I saw. They had 5 pieces but the same basic topology. I think in that in that application equalization is very important for the higher loads. Waiting to see Buff weigh in on this one! Wayne
From Superior, CO
Joined Jul 5, 2007
16 points
Apr 17, 2012
Zermatt
anyone want to post a pic of the OP setup? I think I am picturing it right but I would be interested to see for sure. J mac
Joined Oct 8, 2008
101 points
Apr 17, 2012
John McHugh wrote:
anyone want to post a pic of the OP setup? I think I am picturing it right but I would be interested to see for sure.


The direction this thread has taken is pretty funny. There is no correct anchor for every situation. It is completely circumstantial. Expand your bag of tricks and learn when/why they are effective and make the decision at the anchor what to do.


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Rob P.
From Bay Area
Joined Sep 28, 2008
259 points
Apr 17, 2012
Wayne wrote:
That looks like a 2 piece version of a rescue anchor I saw. They had 5 pieces but the same basic topology. I think in that in that application equalization is very important for the higher loads. Waiting to see Buff weigh in on this one!


Yes, it's basically similar to Bill May's rig. To me, it really doesn't matter which way this discussion goes. If you distribute off of solid pro with good angles, you can't go wrong.

If it's a case of rockfall, does it make a difference if you are killed at the anchor, or dead on the deck, no; but, again maybe it does. Speaking in terms of absolutes with rigs that are more than adequate one way or the other as far as handling the load isn't really the main concern to me. So whatever works to move fast, get an adequate load distribution, and take a better route position are what seem to be more important.

Climbers getting tagged with rocks and shitty anchors aren't anywhere near the number of accidents which occur in far greater amount from belay partner fuck-ups, mis-communication, or otherwise poor decision making from losing situational awareness.
Buff Johnson
Joined Dec 19, 2005
1,494 points
Apr 17, 2012
Tipton wrote:
Good grief, try not to take offense to everything on the internet, it just isn't healthy. I must be missing the negative remarks about building the anchor out of the rope...but without the carabiner in the above pic it creates an American Death Triangle. Personally, I don't like the anchor pictured above, I prefer the regular bunny-ears instead but that's based largely personal preference.


Who's taking offense? Just pointing out that these anchor with the rope threads always get derailed by someone who would rather just make smart ass comments. Apparently that kind of guideline #1 violation is cool with MP. And thanks for the heads up on the ADT...Sherlock.
Leeroy
Joined Feb 4, 2012
3 points


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