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Strong bolts don't always make good anchors!!
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By nicelegs
From Denver
Nov 11, 2013
Fixe Rings by themselves are not bad. What pisses me off is coming upon these , placed at the same height, 12-18" apart from each other. This twists the bejesus out of your rope no matter how much you fuck with it. Really, you should place one low and another bolt about a foot higher with a chain hanging to equalize them.

I often come across this setup and end up lowering off one of them instead of both just to save my poor rope.

It's a piss poor attempt to re-invent the wheel. If you want two bolts at the same height, have two quicklinks hanging off each. Done.

I am well aware that there are about a dozen better options on the market, or configurations that can be used. I know that route developers know this too. So why do I keep seeing these god damn things?

I'd take cold shuts over these, 1/4"s with a American Triangle, or a giant wad of tat. Shitty anchors suck, sure, but they rarely fail and tend to be set up in a way that doesn't twist the rope.

TL:DR version, go buy some chain retard.

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By Ryan Nevius
From The Range of Light
Nov 11, 2013
Mt. Agassiz
Can you attach a photo? The way your post is phrased, it sounds like you're complaining about top roping directly through a rap anchor...

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By Peter Jackson
From Rumney, NH
Nov 11, 2013
Just in case the two big belay anchors aren't obvious enough for you, here is where to find the belay station.
I agree with you in principle: anchors should be configured properly. But you'll rap off a single bolt just to avoid twisting your rope? Yikes.

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By Rob Duncan
From Salt Lake City
Nov 11, 2013
rap those bomber bolts and your rope will be spared! but yes somewhat annoying

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By Ryan Nevius
From The Range of Light
Nov 11, 2013
Mt. Agassiz
I get it now...you're lowering off of a rap anchor. Doh!

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By nicelegs
From Denver
Nov 11, 2013
It's worse when lowering but still twists the rope when you pull it after a rappel. The rolofson, Trout, Miller style of using mussey hooks is superior to anything that is actually marketed for climbing IMO.

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By nicelegs
From Denver
Nov 11, 2013
I do put up my own routes. That is precisely why I get pissed when I see others doing it the dumb way.

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By Chris Vinson
Nov 11, 2013
Steel ovals are really nice for that kind of thing, cheap and easy.

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By Boissal
From Small Lake, UT
Nov 11, 2013
nicelegs wrote:
I do put up my own routes. That is precisely why I get pissed when I see others doing it the dumb way.

+1. Unless rock quality dictates it those things should never go in level and a foot apart. They'll corkscrew the shit of your ropes even on rap. But Jeebus forbid you'd point out that there's a proper way to do things...

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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Nov 11, 2013
Bucky
nicelegs wrote:
Fixe Rings by themselves are not bad. What pisses me off is coming upon these , placed at the same height, 12-18" apart from each other. This twists the bejesus out of your rope no matter how much you fuck with it. Really, you should place one low and another bolt about a foot higher with a chain hanging to equalize them. I often come across this setup and end up lowering off one of them instead of both just to save my poor rope. It's a piss poor attempt to re-invent the wheel. If you want two bolts at the same height, have two quicklinks hanging off each. Done. I am well aware that there are about a dozen better options on the market, or configurations that can be used. I know that route developers know this too. So why do I keep seeing these god damn things? I'd take cold shuts over these, 1/4"s with a American Triangle, or a giant wad of tat. Shitty anchors suck, sure, but they rarely fail and tend to be set up in a way that doesn't twist the rope. TL:DR version, go buy some chain retard.


YES, YES, YES!!! No doubt!! Every time I use one of these setups, I think to myself "Why Lord, hast thou bestowed upon me such a sh*tty, rope twisting setup??"

The thing I can't figure out is that those damn Fixes rigs are hella expensive too. Why not just use two standard hangers and hang some etched, painted chain from the hanger?

Badda bing: Cheap.
Badda boom: easy to upgrade.
Badda bing: Multiple clip in points to help with organization during belay changeovers and rap rigging
Badda boom: No rope twisting!!

Rob Duncan wrote:
rap those bomber bolts and your rope will be spared! but yes somewhat annoying


No, rapping still twists your rope when you pull it. Maybe not as bad, but still.

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By J C Wilks
From Loveland, CO
Nov 11, 2013
I agree there are better ways to build anchors but what does this have to do with bolt strength?

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By nicelegs
From Denver
Nov 11, 2013
J C Wilks wrote:
I agree there are better ways to build anchors but what does this have to do with bolt strength?


Plenty of times I read about anchor replacement initiatives and it's always about old or rusty or weak bolts. Rarely do I hear about anchor replacement because someone built a nice strong shitty anchor.

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By coldfinger
Nov 11, 2013
Ryan Nevius wrote:
I get it now...you're lowering off of a rap anchor. Doh!


No you don't get it.

New Euro standard is bolts aligned vertically not horizontally.

Pretty dumb to place anchor that could be 100% ideal in a way that makes it 100% snafu.

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By Ryan Nevius
From The Range of Light
Nov 11, 2013
Mt. Agassiz
coldfinger wrote:
No you don't get it. New Euro standard is bolts aligned vertically not horizontally. Pretty dumb to place anchor that could be 100% ideal in a way that makes it 100% snafu.


Actually, I do get it. I couldn't visualize the original complaint. I agree with the OP. Sit down, bud.

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By nicelegs
From Denver
Nov 11, 2013
John Butler wrote:
"I do put up my own routes" Then fix it :-)


John, I have a list. What do you have?

Do you see no value in pointing out this problem to developers or future developers? One person or a group of people should not have to go and pay to fix mistakes that never needed to be made.

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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Nov 11, 2013
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord
i have installed pairs of those ring anchors in the past and agree that they will twist the rope when lowering. Especially if the rings bind against the rock. Not a whole lot you can do to fix the setup except put two quicklinks to each. They do work better as rap anchors.

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By Joe Stark
From Iowa
Nov 11, 2013
Warming up
Mussey hooks suck ass. Use climbing gear for climbing anchors. For instance: Climbtech makes very affordable steel biners. Less visual impact and, wait for it... They're rated equipment!

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By nicelegs
From Denver
Nov 11, 2013
Joe Stark wrote:
Mussey hooks suck ass. Use climbing gear for climbing anchors. For instance: Climbtech makes very affordable steel biners. Less visual impact and, wait for it... They're rated equipment!


Joe, you live in Iowa, your point is invalid.

Ideally, sure, rated gear is cool. With enough steel, as is the case with mussy hooks or even a regular chain, I tend to worry a little less. BTW, they do have a safe working load of 2000lbs. Of course no uiaa so the lawyers do make them say you can't use them for people.

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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Nov 11, 2013
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV
I for one am in full support of auto belay devices being installed atop every route outdoors. This would solve your problems too. You can be the first to install them at your local crag! Join us!

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By Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Nov 11, 2013
OTL
Mussy Hooks are awesome when I'm sport climbing.

Ran into this sweet rapp setup this weekend:



Yes the top bolt was 3/8" - bomber

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By Joe Stark
From Iowa
Nov 11, 2013
Warming up
Iowa has really fantastic off-the-grid sport climbing. It's just not available to the general public.

And Mussey hooks really are jank.

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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Nov 11, 2013
Stabby
2 of the vertical aligned anchors with Fixe rings.
Fun.
Fun.

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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Nov 11, 2013
Bucky
Joe Stark wrote:
Iowa has really fantastic off-the-grid sport climbing. It's just not available to the general public. And Mussey hooks really are jank.


No, mussy hooks are not jank. Quarter inch chain is jank. Rusty button heads are jank. Mussy hooks? Truck.

And....having climbed a lot in Iowa growing up, I have to say, calling any climbing in Iowa fantastic is an exercise in wishful thinking. There is some nice climbing, but fantastic? Meh.

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By Allen Sanderson
From Oootah
Nov 11, 2013
Stairway To Heaven - all the way to the Pearly Gates <br />(i.e. 10 pitches to the tram station)
While I agree the set up is not correct why are you lowering off the anchor rings in the first place? if you want to lower off set yer own draws. Otherwise you should only be using the rings to rap from the anchors (which will still twist the rope but not as bad).

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By Boissal
From Small Lake, UT
Nov 11, 2013
Mike Lane wrote:

Was that crag bolted with a 4' ruler to determine bolt spacing? I'd be more worried of z-clipping than at the gym...

Allen Sanderson wrote:
While I agree the set up is not correct why are you lowering off the anchor rings in the first place? if you want to lower off set yer own draws. Otherwise you should only be using the rings to rap from the anchors.

These things are proliferating even on newer sport routes when you can't really expect people to behave like they're out for a 4 pitch 5.7 adventure... Rap-specific hardware probably should be reserved for rap-only uses, especially when there are a number of equally convenient cheaper and easier to replace when worn options.

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By Joe Stark
From Iowa
Nov 11, 2013
Warming up
J.
I'm not saying Mussey hooks are weak. I'm saying they look shitty in general. They're ghetto. Why use a big, ugly tow hook when a svelte, steel biner is available?

Eastern Iowa has a LOT of limestone. More than the few public sport crags and state parks put together. Way more than people that even live here realize.

Off topic.
I'm actually surprised that the DNR has only got their hands on one decent canyon so far. When they bought Lost Canyon a great disturbance was felt in the force. As if thousands of future sport climbers all called out, but that wall is SICK! And we're then suddenly silenced. (By a government agency that values plants over recreation.)

It'd be good to see the Iowa Climber's Coalition work out a land acquisition plan and get the community at large more climbing. There really is some incredible quality stone to be found.

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