Sport climbing with newbie

Recently, when taking a new climber out to a sport route, I realized a little challenge. I led, then I belayed him on top rope. At that point, he has to either clean the anchor and rappel, or I have to send it again. So I came up with this plan instead: I lead, then belay them from the top. Now we're both at the top, so I can show them how to clean the anchor and switch to rappel. What do you think of this idea?

[edit reason: came up with funnier joke]

i don't know, that sounds pretty Balsley to me.

Make sure you can safely lower your partner if they can't finish the climb. Otherwise, that seems fine as long as it's not a shitty hanging stance, and you are careful not to fuck up the transition from climbing to rappelling.

I am a big fan of teaching someone how to repel or clean anchors while they are still on the ground. But what you did would work, in theory, as long as that person who are teaching doesn't freak out on you.

You can also thread the anchors and then clip the rope through two draws/ biners that are attached high. This will take the weight of the rope and help prevent damaging the rap rings. I wouldn't do this for a bunch of people since it will still were the rings slightly but for one person it's really pretty minimal.. this way when they get up the can just remove the biners and lower down.

ok sorry for that,

the problem i see is that most sport anchors are below the top of the cliff.

it could work well for some routes, but not all, so choose a good one for it and it could be an all right way to instruct, although the cost for a mistake is serious injury or death.

also, you can't lower easily/safely if they want to work on the route, unless you setup a complicated system, or belay off your harness which may get old while a beginner is hanging on the rope.

Michael Spiesbach wrote:You can also thread the anchors and then clip the rope through two draws/ biners that are attached high. This will take the weight of the rope and help prevent damaging the rap rings. I wouldn't do this for a bunch of people since it will still were the rings slightly but for one person it's really pretty minimal.. this way when they get up the can just remove the biners and lower down.

^+1

I think the idea works just fine. I've taught a handful of folks the basics and while I usually do much of the initial training on the ground (setting up anchors, cleaning, rapping), I will do as you suggested during the first few times they complete the task.

This way you can talk them through it step by step quite easily, you know where they are in the process and you can correct them as they go (or don't, and make them start all over again, ha! fuckers!).

And if they don't feel comfortable, you can set up the anchor again real quick and lower them from the top with ease.

Michael Spiesbach wrote:You can also thread the anchors and then clip the rope through two draws/ biners that are attached high. This will take the weight of the rope and help prevent damaging the rap rings. I wouldn't do this for a bunch of people since it will still were the rings slightly but for one person it's really pretty minimal.. this way when they get up the can just remove the biners and lower down.

This is what Michael is talking about:

Be careful in recommending lowering and belaying off of rap rings.
Some rap rings are thin aluminum jobs - not something you would want to lower off on.

You don't have to lower through the rings, the climber can still put themselves on rappel, but it makes "cleaning the anchor" as simple as removing the extra biner, so they can focus on one new skill at a time. Obviously you have the chance to inspect the anchor when you are setting this up, so you will be able to decide whether lowering is a good idea or not.

Michael Spiesbach wrote:You can also thread the anchors and then clip the rope through two draws/ biners that are attached high. This will take the weight of the rope and help prevent damaging the rap rings. I wouldn't do this for a bunch of people since it will still were the rings slightly but for one person it's really pretty minimal.. this way when they get up the can just remove the biners and lower down.

This is a great idea that I'm frustrated to have not thought of before. Thanks for sharing it.

I primarily climb in a similar situation to the OP - with novice climbers - and have been just re-climbing all the routes when we're ready to move or head home. Usually I'm game but toward the end of the day I find myself overly fatigued - no more!

Lou Hibbard wrote:Be careful in recommending lowering and belaying off of rap rings. Some rap rings are thin aluminum jobs - not something you would want to lower off on.

If anyone equipping a sport route uses Al rap rings at the anchor, they should get a solid beat-down.

Would mule hitching your belay device and using your partners weight to assist you after you been lowered be a solution? I'm pretty lazy and climbing while weighing approximately nothing was worth the effort.

Zabadoo wrote:Would mule hitching your belay device and using your partners weight to assist you after you been lowered be a solution? I'm pretty lazy and climbing while weighing approximately nothing was worth the effort.

Huh?
I don't see how this addresses the OP at all.

Zabadoo wrote:Would mule hitching your belay device and using your partners weight to assist you after you been lowered be a solution? I'm pretty lazy and climbing while weighing approximately nothing was worth the effort.

this. i do this a lot when climbing with a beginner. its easy, fun, and a good practice for going hands-free. with a locking biner for 'catastrophe backup', its v. safe too.

TSluiter wrote:I think the idea works just fine. I've taught a handful of folks the basics and while I usually do much of the initial training on the ground (setting up anchors, cleaning, rapping), I will do as you suggested during the first few times they complete the task. This way you can talk them through it step by step quite easily, you know where they are in the process and you can correct them as they go (or don't, and make them start all over again, ha! fuckers!). And if they don't feel comfortable, you can set up the anchor again real quick and lower them from the top with ease.

I agree that the first time they learn should be on the ground. When I have taught how to clean an anchor, I ask the student to think through what they are trying to accomplish (taking the rope out of the draws and threading the anchor so that they can take the draws with them), and what they don't want to do (drop the rope). I think there is more value to this approach rather than showing them a set of exact steps to memorize. For instance, it doesn't really matter if they tear down the anchor first thing or last, as long as they have secured themselves to the anchor and secured the rope (although I tear down the anchor before threading the rope, as there is less gear in the way)

Also, don't underestimate the freak out factor for someone's first rappel. Have someone on the ground to give a firemans belay, or better yet, teach them to use an autoblock.

Please warn them about rappelling off the end of the rope! For a beginner, it should be a "rule" to always knot the ends. After they gain experience, they can learn when it is appropriate to break the rules and when it is not.

Marc801 wrote: Huh? I don't see how this addresses the OP at all.

I'm with you, I have no idea what these two are talking about.

Michael Spiesbach wrote:You can also thread the anchors and then clip the rope through two draws/ biners that are attached high. This will take the weight of the rope and help prevent damaging the rap rings. I wouldn't do this for a bunch of people since it will still were the rings slightly but for one person it's really pretty minimal.. this way when they get up the can just remove the biners and lower down.

Good idea. But bear in mind that this method will only work if each half of the anchor has two qlinks or one link and a decent length of chain. This method will not work for rap-only anchors which have "short" links or only rap rings.

All very good points Magpie. Especially the goal- or systems-based thinking. So many ways to skin a cat ya know.

Might do well to start on low angled terrain/slab as well, just to get the feel for how system works and the friction states of the device(s) your using. Rapping into space or down over a roof can get spooky for newcomers.

Can't forget to tie that hair up either, hippies.

As zabadoo says, especially on vertical or slightly slabby routes, what I usually do is to tie a munter mule (or tie off a gri) after the last climber gets up top, and then instead of lowering them, you walk up to the anchors using them as a counterweight (helps if they're heavy) and as you climb/walk you are lowering them to the ground. Once you're up top you go indirect, lower them the rest of the way as necessary, and clean and rappel. If you have any questions about this method, this is not the right method.