Crusher and Sam...

well said... you have helped me decide that I am going to call the Tombstone (out by Lost World Butte) a tower. I have wanted to jump on that thing for a while but the dark side of the tower quest has a firm grip on me.

Yeah, that Tombstone is definitely a tower in my book. Make sure to do Cenotaph Spire while you are out there. Just like Arches, but with bad rock!

OK for a tower game. On what tower am I confused in this photo?
No cheating or looking for the photo elsewhere to affirm, just look and see.
Hint #1: I am 1/2 way up a route in this photo.
Hint #2: Look at the gear on me.

... and yes, that is a MP.com printout I am reading to get a description of where I am Vs where I thought I should be.

What is a tower... could it be that we have a consensus going here? Crusher, Tony, Andrew, Sam, Brad...? Well, you can include me too.

For those failing to see the logic, remember that a desert tower is not necessarily always a desert spire. And that a spire might not always be a tower! We have buttes and fins and pinnacles and hats and needles and... and proud chicken like formations (see shot of Mother Goose in The Swell).


I think everyone would agree that Castleton is a spire and a tower. The Rectory is certainly a towering land formation, but it is not a spire. Bullwinkle may be considered a spire by some, but is it a towering landform? Probably not. Mother Goose? Well, it is a landform with a summit.

So what we desert climbing rats seeking out these "islands in the sky" must have is a general category in which to classify (and of course, count) these elusive summits. Most of us, can we not, simply go with the general classification of "Desert Towers"?!

When you are looking for a partner to go to the desert with and bag summits... would you say "let's go bag some desert landforms?" Probably not. Would you say "let's go bag some islands in the sky"? Nope. "Let's go bag some desert spires?" Maybe... but you could pretty much always say "Let's go bag some freaking towers!".

Regardless of the CUI (Clean Underwear Index), as we all have a different measuring stick when it comes to messing ourselves, can we all simply conlcude with Crusher that A DESERT TOWER IS:
1.) A Colorado Plateau landform with a summit
2.) The summit is attainable ONLY via 5th class/Aid Climbing
3.) The descent must be made via 5th Class Climbing or Rappel

OK, so maybe I have climbed a tower after all? I would hate to have gone through all that underwear for no reason.

So Frosty/Brad/Sam/Crusher/Tony, is this a tower?

Hmmm... first of all... answer me this, has that thing been climbed? And second, where is it located exactly?

As to the question, is that thing a tower... with that picture it is difficult to tell how tall that thing is.
Even with no real good perspective, it looks like the summit is hardly separated? And that it may be that the thing is 15' tall and you could fairly easily boulder/mantle over and up to the top? Or it's a simple rappel to the top of the landform? Too many variables here for me to fully give my own individual ruling.

You've been up close and personal yourself Andrew, how would you classify it?

Frosty,

There can never be a consensus... Rule #18 clearly states:

If (insert your name here) calls it a tower... it's a tower. Thus there will always be room for subjective debate.

Come on, with only a modicum of effort we could beat this horse another 100 years... or until they all fall over, whichever comes first.



Andrew,

That is definitely a tower unless it's some sort of macro photograph and you can just step down from that summit to the wall next to it...

Brad


EDIT- At least it's not like Clueless Tower (which is not a tower) in CNM which can be reached with a hike and a jump from the rim.

How did that feel Ben?

The tower is about a hundred feet high. It has a definite summit, but it isn't very detached and the cliff above it is considerably higher than it. I suppose you could probably rap down to it, but it would take some wild swinging around to get on top of it.

Its off of the Moore cutoff road in the swell, and John Glime and I climbed it a couple of weeks ago. Surely felt like a tower to me, but it is a gray area. I'm pretty liberal about what i'll call a tower though - I consider mother goose, the tower of babel, and mexican hat towers.

This is a tower

yesir.

Andrew,
Of course it would have to pass the committee as a whole, but with your description, your tower looks to meet all the qualifications. Baring a negative conclusion via a personal visual inspection, in my quest I would have no qualms about adding that to my own list of Desert Towers. Regardless of what anyone else says… Congrats. At 100' that tower looks fairly precarious! What did you guys name/rate it?

Here is the beta.

Sara's Spire

Nice work on your routes in the swell by the way. I've been starting to tick them, and i still haven't seen anyone else back there. Must have been pretty cool to get to those things first.

Andrew...
yep, in my book thats a tower. Judging from this side alone, i'd say one that any ptotential climber should take pretty serious.

I know what Brad thinks, but it is worth throwing this out to the 'committee.'

Is the pulpit in Zion on the Colorado Plateau? Does it go on the list or not?

Yeah, for sure... The Pulpit in Zion is on the southwestern edge Colorado Plateau and should count. I am not sure about Fang Spire, but that may be another to include there in Zion. I forget how truly detatched that is though...

JG if you are going all the way to Zion for the pulpit...lets go do a WALL instead! yeehaw!

I have too many towers to climb right now Tea! I have already climbed the Pulpit, but Brad told me that it shouldn't count toward the tower list... so it was off, until Frosty chimed in. Thanks Frosty :)

Fang Spire is definitely on my tower list...

Okay everyone. I feel pretty inadequate, but I think it is time for everyone to give us their totals. I hear Frosty is closing in on 100 towers...

I am at 27 I think,

Hey Frosty! Repeated some of your swell routes in the 90's! first time I saw your name in a summit register I thought it was a joke! (hello..my name is Lance Uppercut!).

Anyway...fun obscure routes with not many repeats since the FA's!

Brad, I would have to agree that Clueless tower is questionable, but I haven't given up hope just yet. It would be a very committing jump, and you definitely can't rappel to the summit(you rappel about 5' swing over and then climb up 5'). And the climbing on 'Get a Life' is sooo good, it must be a tower. But I must admit that when you summit on top it seems as if you are at the rim of the canyon not on a tower. It's definitely not an 'Island in the Sky.'

And I don't care what anyone says, to me Zion is not Desert Tower territory. The Pulpit and Fang spire don't count! Yes, John I realize it hurts but the great Ben has spoken. So I'm sorry but take that lump of rock back off your list. 26 is it?

Tea! Seems you know... obscure climbs quite often have the best adventure value! Glad you got some summit laughs.

Ben. Ben wants to include Clueless. But Zion is ineligible for some reason?

Well... as we all well know most of this Tower Talk is quite subjective. And of course everything is open for debate. But, Ben seems to be ignoring important facts.
#1 - Clueless should not be considered a true 'tower' simply because the summit can be jumped or walked onto via a ladder. I am not sure any 'committee' member could seriously approve of Clueless Tower with this important rule violation. Anyone could of course still call it a tower, but Clueless should not be eligible for inclusion on any climbers Desert Tower List.
#2 - Zion... draw the line where you will Ben, but Zion IS on The Plateau. It IS in the desert. And there ARE true towers there.

Remember Ben, and most of us here know this, quality climbing does not a tower make.

I definitely count the towers in Zion, though I haven't done any yet.

I just wrote down my list, and came up with 21, though I must be missing a few - i'm certain i've climbed more than that. I also have two very near misses. I pussied out on the summit mantle on Lighthouse Tower, and I got shut down 15' from the top of Chip Tower in Canyonlands because a fixed blade was gone and I didn't have a cheater stick. Bogus.

I count only 16 towers for me, and this includes one "hat" and one "ship", as in Mexican Hat and Shiprock. The top of Shiprock seems tower-like, although the base is wide, I think it fails the "taller than it is wide" criterion. You only get one tower no matter how many routes you climb on Castleton, right?