Anyone know if that manky Star-Dryvin pro bolt on N Chimney of Castleton is original? Someone told me years ago that while it looks like it's ancient, it might not be from the FA. I'm planning on doing the route again in a couple weeks, and I can replace it then if it's original.

I won't have computer access until next week, so apologies if I don't respond.

Greg

PS Sam, I'm having some email trouble, I don't have any of those Yates rings, but I have a good number of the beefy Fixe stainless steel rings.

I don't know if its original or if its still there. However, a #4 or 4.5 Camalot fits perfectly at that spot, so I would not be in favor of replacing the bolt, regardless.

My vote... Do not replace!

Greg
I was gonna replace it when I did the anchors... maybe we could work together, finally. As per whether it is there from the FA or not, I will find out from the FA guy. I know nothing of the #4 Camalot placement but if its so, its so. If it was there on teh FA and the camelot placement is even remotely sketchy, it should be there. IF not, perhaps not. We can debate it if not, but if Dan B placed it in 1970, it should remain.... no reason to go rewriting history.
Sam

It's been a while since I did this route but I remember having to climb a bit above the bolt before a #4 would go in. I think you need a 4.5 or 5 to protect anything lower but the placement is in no way sketchy.

If it matters, I'm in favor of leaving things as they are...

I support leaving it as it is. A #4 might not fit right where the bolt is, but a #5 might. Either way it is protectable with gear.

I am pretty sure a #4 C4 does not fit by the bolt. I did not lead the pitch, but I am pretty sure my partner had a #4 a ways below and one a few feet above it.

An old style 4.5 or 5 fits really well there. Leave the old bolt for a history lesson, but nothing new needs to go in.

The move can be protected by a number 5. However, it is easy to get to the spot where a number 4 can fit (just above the bolt). Please don't replace the bolt. It isn't necessary and it adds character to a great route.
Ronnie

QUESTION RESOLVED!
I just spoke to Dan Burgette who did the first ascent. He did not place that bolt and he does not like the fact that the bolt was subsequently placed after his ascent.
As far as I'm concerned, out it comes!
Sam

Wow! An issue was resolved and not made worse on an internet forum! Amazing.

Information about the North Chimney on the web should be edited once the bolt is removed to give people a heads up.

What's the problem with just leaving it there? That seems to me to be the "lowest impact" solution at this point.

Some day soon we will all lament the fact that there is nowhere we can go to see old rusty star drives.

I agree with Mike. What's wrong with leaving it there? If it was placed last week then, sure, it makes sense to remove it. But back in the day before #5 Camalots, most climbers were psyched to have it there, and even today it provides some peace of mind. It's been around long enough that it's part of the route's history, and it adds a little character to the whole experience.

"Some day soon we will all lament the fact that there is nowhere we can go to see old rusty star drives."

If Ken Yager finds a permanent home for the Yosemite Climbing Museum you'll be able to see rusty star drives, the original "stoveleg" pitons and lots of other historical mank.

In-situ old mank is however a novel touch on a classic route.

So much for consensus ;)

If it is removed(I'm not in favor of this option)it should be patched somehow. The only thing worse then a new bolt would be a hole in the rock.

Still, I say just leave it alone. If someone takes it out, someone else, who isn't into reading online chats, is going to climb it and think to themselves "hey there used to be a bolt here, I should replace it".

Lets tally this up...
Remove bolt = first ascentionist didn't place it and doesn't want it, numerous people say there is other pro for the spot, its rusting, spinning, and probably will not hold 3 more falls.
Leave Bolt = the world is running out of rusty, spinning star drives and they, like the small pox virus, will be missed when gone (even though there are at least a dozen other star drives on this tower, not to mention in the desert, much less the world).
Replace bolt = almost no arguemnt

hmmm

IIRC when we did the route we skipped the bolt cause of how it looked. I would be in favor of it being removed and patched.

If left as is, it becomes a hazard. That is if it is not already one which it probably is. The other is that if left, there is the potential for others who would not have this discussion to come along and replace it themselves.

If nothing else pull the hanger and stick the drive back in - then folks can see a rusty star drive but not have anything to clip :-D

Get a grip everyone, there really isn't even an arugument here. Leave it alone- stop trying to save the world.

I agree. Even if it is not from the FA it still has been there probably since the 70's. Why do YOU feel the need to dicate what happens to this bolt?

Obviously a number of people don't agree, and if there is not a clear consensus then the least offensive and lowest impact thing to do is let it be.

As climbing tradition dictates, first ascentionists determine the style of the climb. Since the first ascentionist wants the retro bolt taken out, it looks like this problem has an easy solution.

Don't be ridiculous. Do not take out or replace it.

I don't care if the FA party placed it or not. It has been there long enough to become a historic part of the route.

Removing it would simply leave a scar even if you attempt to patch. Thus, more impact.

And how about just freaking leaving these poor relics out there alone for others to ponder and enjoy? Especially when modern pro can be had!

Yes, some of us enjoy seeing museum pieces on desert towers. So please, just leave it... and climb on.