Perhaps someone from The Nature Conservancy (TNC) or the Indian Creek Cattle Co. can give everyone here a little explanation of the current status of the Dugout Ranch? It is my understanding that the Ranch was sold to TNC in 1997 and is curently leased by its former owner, Heidi Redd. If that is the case, hasn't the Redd family pretty much sold any right to complain about the presence of public-land users on the Reservoir Wall within view of the home they lease? I would think the constant RV traffic on the highway would be more invasive and what about jets in the airspace above? It seems to me that the lessee of the Dugout Ranch (or the owner (TNC), for that matter)has no more say in the public's use of public land than any other user group. Anyhow, I think it would go along ways toward improving future multi-use user relations if the BLM and TNC were to post an explanation of the land status of each of the major cliffs in the North Cottonwood/Indian Creek corridor. Thanks in advance for any responses.

Get over yourself! Indian Creek is BIG. Go somewhere else. The Reservoir Wall isn't even that great. I must admit I'm sick of seeing all the Ranchers in the valley I live in, so I can see where Heidi is coming from. Maybe the damn Outward Bound shouldn't have barged up there and built a trail and changed there mind and torn it down. Maybe Lisa Hathaway and Patagonia should have been a little smarter about their little ice skating photo shoot. Maybe a bunch of idiotic film makers/Republic of Boulderites could have shown a bit more retraint and less enthusiasm over a 35' splitter and equestrian stunts. Maybe Heavy Duty could have been a bit less obnoxious during his fifteen year tenure. Maybe the Host and Hostess shouldn't have taken that dog. Maybe il'Doctor could have turned down the book offer. Maybe Montrail could be a bit less obvious next year. Maybe all you Greenies could post your future crag wrecking intentions for the Ranchers each year, and an explanation of how cool everyone with a Patagonia fleece and Carhartts is. You're welcome, and thanks for thanking me in advance. If you want hard cracks and an area where nobody could give a shit what you do? Go wreck that place Cheney and the Waltons calls home.

Heidi and family sold the ranch lands, and are leasing those. They OWN the land they live on, and will until at least her sons move on.

small price to pay, quit whining.

Beagle: spot on, every point. i'll buy you a beer if we ever cross paths out there.

LOL....Beagle...good stuff. The puffy coats and Carhartts is a bullseye! Why does everyone enjoy looking the same? The "Mountain Casual" look is pretty much the standard climber uniform now! throw in some approach shoes....bingo, your standard climber who may or may not have just send something...lol.

Don't forget the Subaru or Tacoma with a shell.

I'd write more but I've got to go put stickers on my windows.

As far as anyone who wants to have an adult dialog: My understanding is that The Nature Conservancy owns the whole shooting match, that the Redds have a 25 year lease on the homestead, and that the Indian Creek Cattle Co. has a ten year grazing lease (ending 2007?)on the other 5,000 acres. This makes TNC and the Redd family just another "user group" with one vote each, as far as the BLMs management of publicly owned buttresses such as the Reservoir Wall goes. Right or wrong? This forum was opened with the hope that someone more informed about the subtleties of the obviously complex current ownership/access situation could ring in, thereby doing a little damage control. Cheers.

hey angry ~ {{wince}} -I have a Tacoma with a shell.... what does this mean...?!? (-no carharts or stickers-)

Hey Kirra! What the hell happened to the Dodge? Sellout!! (Ha!)

dude - that was a Chev-vee..!! Is that you 'Cam from Lumpy' ...? Married or what -- Tom & us'all misses ya..!

Do a search for the Friends of Indian Creek website (friendsofindiancreek.org) and they should have a pretty good update on access issues and with details on how the ranch and conservancy are cooperating. They also have some good info on this on rockclimbing.com. From what I remember, Heidi is leasing her ranch from the NC, but I believe there's a special agreement that she still has say over what's allowed - probably because the area is being conserved not only for it's natural beauty and ecological worth, but also to preserve the ranching operations that are going on there.... (friendsofindiancreek.org/camping.php - this address is for the camping and climbing restrictions and talks about Heidi's lease of the land area she lives on as well as the grazing rights to the surrounding land)

Yep 'tis I! Got married and just got back from Indian Creek too!

camfieldco@aol.com

I think Stephanie's right. The Redd's have their say via the contracted agreement. And the Nature Conservancy owns the land and will for a very long time. They are notorius for doing it their own way.

Oh, and Beagle rubbed your face in it too and it was really damn funny. sorry.

I have also heard that the Nature Conservancy is known for being pretty aggro. Most places where they own land they shut it down to everyone -hikers, climbers, everyone! We should be thankful that they have taken a different view here.

Outward Bound contributes labor to RMFI, who designs the trails. Your bile is misplaced.

The history of the Dugout Ranch is a good one to think about from a recreation perspective. The Dugout Ranch was going on the block as part of a divorce settlement between the Redds. Heidi Redd arranged to sell the property to the Nature Conservancy in 1997 and lease the property back to continue ranching. There is a good article from the NY Times here:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D02E0DE133BF>>>>>

The property would have otherwise been developed into another golf course/vacation home complex. Then where would your climbing access be? This area has exploded in climber usage in the last handful of years, and the Nature Conservancy, BLM and Ms. Redd have worked well together dealing with this shift in land use and accompanying impacts to archeological sites, vegetation, soil, and water quality. Hopefully the climbing community continues to work well to hold up their end as well...