I heard you had to pay at the Creek now. Is this true?

not true, but if people don't pack out, it soon will be

Poo that is......bring WAG bags and use them. Also be cool to the ranchers as they own the access to many of the popular crags (Supercrack Buttress, Battle of the Bulge, Scarface Wall) and have had many run-ins with climbers lately and we are not their favorite people right now.

Indian Creek is in serious contention for being loved to death. You just can't be having 100-people bonfires, huge parties, and transient year-round Camp-4-style bums...without land owners taking notice. Do your part in this VERY fragile ecosystem...pick up your poop, cig butts, tape, Luna Bar wrappers, drum-skin covers, hippie beads, roaches...whatever...and leave the place BETTER than you found it. My prediction is that very soon some of the creek will get shut down, and soon you will be paying for camping/toilets in the area. A quick chat with the ranch owners last fall, made it seem like they were pretty sick of seeing puffy-jacketed radsters everywhere. We climbers like to think we are oh so enviro-oriented, but a walk along some of the buttresses will tell a different story....and it ain't the cows taping up, and smoking menthols, that's for sure.

It sucks to see this place get trashed, but I don't think it is quite as bad as the crybabies make it out to be. Much of the climbing traffic is confined to two or three walls. It seems it will be quite a while though before any fees and such would be put in place. BLM in SE Utah has a pretty small budget; it takes major money to implement the changes that people fear will be made.

I feel the big issue is the camping situation. The first time I camped under the Bridger Jacks there were only a few established camping sites. If you drive the road now (especially on a holiday weekend) there are dozens of cars and people camping everywhere. What was once a magical landscape is now a dust bowl. While I know that the ranching also takes a toll on the environment, they own the land and we do not. Don't say it is not as bad as some people say, that only shows that you really do not know what it once was.

Personally I am all for having pay campsites, as that will help with the overcrowding and maybe help preserve this amazing place.

Having only climbed at the creek twice my opinion may not matter that much, but it was one of the most amazing places I've ever climbed. I just hope we realize how special it is and do what we can to preserve our access.

I don't write on this forum or any forum often, but I have to support the use of WAG bags at Indian Creek. I'm about to start a one or two year road trip, and I know I'll spend a month or two or four at the Creek.

The first time I used WAG bags, a group of maybe 8-10 people used them for four days. It was surprising how much crap we packed out, and it became a topic of discussion during the ride back to Boulder. If we all don't do our part, it will definitely cost each of us to camp there.

I'm not trying to push any personal conviction or morals on anyone. No one has the right to do that. All I ask is that you consider what you deem important and think about how your actions might affect that area: environmental impact, cost of camping, esthetics, etc.

It's so much more than wag bags out there. It's a lack of vision into long-term consequences. Or should I say, personal responsibility.

3 weeks ago I was in the Creek. Beef Basin is still littered with toilet paper. In fact, the only evidence of wag bag usage at all was a full one I found sitting under a tree. It's a five mile drive to Newspaper Rock; you can shit there. If you must dump in the desert, wipe with a rock; the toilet paper will get uncovered eventually.

But there's more. People want fires so badly; I'll admit that on a cold evening it's nice. With so little biomass and so much use, you really should bring your own firewood. And that doesn't mean rooting around off the beaten path for a few more unburned sticks.

I once saw someone bring a ghetto blaster up to the rock; get real. Same with a guitar. And what about drunken hippie bongo jams? Some people actually sleep, show some respect.

I love dogs, but I've seen groups where every member had a dog. This can't be good for the area. What's a good ratio, 1 dog to 3-4 people? It gets pretty rowdy even with that few. I've even had my food ripped up by someone's slobbering friend.

I climbed there over Memorial Day, it was hot as hell. At no time did I ever use chalk, from fingers to offwidths. It's simply not needed in the desert. Again, personal responsibility, if you use chalk, no biggie. If everyone uses chalk, we have a serious eyesore that doesn't wash off as easily as you'd like to think. Try going without for a while and you'll see, it's not as bad as you think. This goes double for tic marks.

I didn't mean to turn this into a rant, but the Creek is special to me, and it bothers me when other people don't take care of it.

Yo ANGRY...I agree man. People can barely see past their next big send...let alone 10 years, and an effective management plan. Such a fragile place cannot withstand such abuse. All the TP prayer flags are the worst...wag bag under a tree? What the hell are people thinking?

I spent 4 days there last month and will echo but not belabor the well said points made above. There is an option that I doubt many will use, but it's not absolutely necessary that people camp at the Creek. I was able to drive from Reservoir Rock to Moab in less than an hour. Sure, "assertive" driving, easy to do on such wide open back roads, but not reckless. Other formal campsites, i.e. with fixed toliets, may also be an option with additional driving. The point is that some climbers could opt for a warm bed/food/cold beer over camping. Sure, sure, it detracts from climb time and is costlier. But I too foresee the day when we will love this place to death, or lose our access. Conservation may require sacrifice. OK, sorry, I'm off the soap box now...

Wouldn't recommend speeding around there...Monticello police are a not the friendliest. Got pulled over once for 7 over, then literally 10 minutes later after making the turn off to Newspaper Rock was pulled over again, this time for 5 over. What a joke@! Did not get a ticket but it was still a pain.