There seem to be some very knowledgeable folks checking in here, so I would like to throw out a question that I have had concerning some of the hardware in this discussion.

I recently did a route up on Whitney Portal (Lone Pine, CA) and one of the pitches had a ton of 5/16" buttonheads with SMC hangers. The Portal buttress has bomber granite, so softness is not an issue; however, I think these bolts went in around 1989, so my question is, how good does everyone think these bolts are? The bolts seemed pretty solid and there was minimal rust and no play when you tried moving them. Still, buttons from 1989 had me thinking. I realize that answering this question requires some speculation for anyone who has not seen these particular bolts, but some generalizations regarding this type of hardware in granite from the late 80's early 90's would nonetheless be useful.

Cheers.

5/16" buttonheads are generally very strong, very difficult to remove, and nothing to worry about. As long as the SMC hangers are the thicker, stainless variety (not the thinner ones, which are often a golden color part way to rusted), should be perfectly fine.

Even when they loosen up from repeated falls, freeze/thaw cycles, etc, they are very hard to pull. Actually, two out of the three bolts on the direct start to Bony Fingers at Whitney Portal were these "loosened up" 5/16" buttonheads (the other was a 1/4"), and I replaced those - they were a major pain to remove, even with the hangers moving/spinning a bit.

If the climate is dry, it can be hard to tell the difference between an old thin SMC hanger with no rust, and a thicker stainless SMC hanger. The old ones are about the width of a quarter; the stainless are about the width of two quarters.

The general rule of bolt replacement when it comes to 5/16" buttonheads that are solid (flush to the rock, no movement or anything) is "Don't mess with them unless you have to."

Note that Fixe made a 8mmx40mm copy that is total crap metal, and they are still for sale despite the fact that Kevin Daniels of Fixe USA told me he would try to pull them years ago. Those copies are poor metal and easily sheared off. Their heads are always dented severely since they are so soft. But those weren't sold until the late '90s at the earliest.

Wow Greg, you rock. Thanks a ton for the response. Just for reference, the route I did was called No Country for Old Men and the hangers were definitely the newer SMC hangers, not the wafer thin scary rigs (though the last bolt on the second pitch was a 1/4" button, which still seemed solid enough). I have heard from others (just as you stated) that the 5/16" buttons are a total bitch to remove, so that probably explains why the FA party (very respectable types) would have left them alone when putting up their new route that shared a pitch with the older route with the buttons.

Thanks for your effort on Bony Fingers and countless other routes on the east side (and perhaps even Dome Rock where I saw ASCA hardware this last weekend?) When I get some extra change, I will be making another donation to ASCA.
Best.

You're welcome!

Nothing to worry about with 5/16" buttonheads, good hangers, and the bolts look good (not spinning, no cratering). Most of the older routes at East Cottage Dome in Tuolumne are exactly that combo, and they've seen TONS of use, falls, etc.

I did replace one 5/16" buttonhead at Spring Dome (Courtright reservoir) that had small, but visible, cratering below the bolt, and the bolt popped super easily. Other than that one, I can't think of a single 5/16" that was easy to remove, and I can think of many that were a major pain to remove.

I did some replacement at Dome Rock (my "rest days" at the Needles), and Kris Solem has done a bunch there too.

All hail Harvey Carter! The man behind the drilled baby angle. And before he had baby angles, Harvey sawed off soft army surplus ring angles for the same purpose. All hail Harvey Carter.

While I am guessing (since there is no data) that the angles are super-bomber, it may have been nice if the shogun pin-rammer might have found consensus among the local JTree community prior to the install. A conservative approach may mean the avoidance of messy anchors where none of the 3-10 bolts/pins appear worth clipping.

Just curious how angle pitons are cheaper too? In Iowa, 3/8x3" stainless expansion bolts can be purchased as low as 75 cents a pop, throw a $2 hanger on there and you are out $3. A standard budget for bolting a route with nice Fixe anchors atop could be $50-75. At a modest price of $5 (angle) a pop, plus the price of epoxy (and the vagueness of 'bomberness') are the angles more economical? what do others think of this?