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South Bluff - North Face Gullies
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By Tradoholic
Dec 28, 2013

This post was originally a comment in South Bluff - North Face Gullies

At one time quiet and highly sensitive areas like this were the closely held knowledge of a dedicated and respectful group of climbers who understood the sensitivity of the area and had good relationships with the local landowners. I fear that posting sensitive areas like this for the general public to see could jeopardize access to this area, areas like it, and possibly even broader access to climbing within the park.

I've never liked "locals only" or worse yet "in-crowd only" attitudes, but I don't think that's the situation here. I think this area was kept quiet out of respect for landowners and the area itself.

Aside from any jeopardy that may or may not result to access here from the publicity this area is now receiving I feel like something else is being lost here too. I can remember hearing about places like this as a budding climber and getting butterflies in my stomach. Waiting for the time when I too would be entrusted with the whereabouts of an area like this created a sense of reverence for the place. I also remember the great sense of pride and accomplishment when the day finally came that I was entrusted with the knowledge, and what a heavy responsibility the knowledge of such a revered place felt like.

Areas like this create benchmarks for young climbers, first they're told the stories of the place, through the stories they come to respect and revere the place, then brought there and entrusted with the knowledge, and can someday, when they feel they trust someone enough, share it themselves. Maybe I'm an old, washed-up, never-was, sell-out now -- but I think traditions and experiences like this are part of what made my time as a climber so rewarding and I hope we're not depriving younger climbers of their opportunity for experiences like this.

Ultimately I guess my message is this:

The Devil's Lake portion of MP seems to be caught up in a race to post every meaningless and meaningful piece of rock in the area. For some areas this may make them more meaningful, for some less meaningful, and perhaps even endanger some. I hope that in the future people have enough respect for the areas they're posting to consider the impact to the area and the community as well as their "rankings" in the points race.


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By Doug Hemken
Administrator
Dec 28, 2013
On Everleigh Club Crack.  Photo by Burt Lindquist.

This post was originally a comment in South Bluff - North Face Gullies

Nick, did you mean to post this on the main oddities page?

There are several areas I can think of that are not currently posted on MP, in part because of access concerns, in part because people wonder if they are worth it. And I hear there are hundreds of boulder problems that have not (yet) been made public.

I think if the DNR was concerned about where we are in the Park I would have heard about it.

I hear what you are saying about the significance of the DL oral tradition. I think there will always be more lore shared informally than will ever be recorded here, and that will continue to be more important in binding us together than words on the Internet.

But I also value what James and Peter have written here about these gullies - I see that they love this place in many of the same ways and for many of the same reasons that I do, yet I've never climbed with either one of them. Personally, I think it adds to the sense of community.


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By James M Schroeder
From Sauk County, WI
Dec 28, 2013
Photo by Pete "Coach" Arndt

This post was originally a comment in South Bluff - North Face Gullies

Doug,

Nick is quoting me verbatim (from here), and trolling as usual.

In his "presented without comment" style he fails to draw several clear distinctions:

1. Skillet Creek is in a far more geologically sensitive area of the park (older, more-deeply exposed rocks).

2. Skillet is very near private land (with indistinct boundaries and the easiest access being over that private land).

3. Skillet Creek is also much further from "improved" areas of the park, considering these gullies are a 15 minute hike down the railroad tracks and those same tracks can be seen from nearly anywhere in the two gullies. You can't even take a footpath to Skillet (unless you start on private land) and you can't hear or see nary a road from Skillet, let alone a locomotive powering a few thousand tons down the track.

4. Skillet Creek is also lower profile in terms of its visibility from the rest of the park - considering these gullies can be seen from just about anywhere on the East Rampart or from Rozno's Meadows (really from anywhere with a view of the north side of the South Bluff) - whereas Skillet is neatly tucked away in a far corner of the park across a road from the main part of the park in a tiny little draw that barely appears on a topo map.

5. The poster(s) of Skillet Creek was shown that area by me and told it was a sensitive area - so I felt like some trust had been betrayed. I was shown these gullies by a map and checked them out on my own, I doubt the map feels like its trust was betrayed.

Nick,

You're a strong and bold climber (stronger and bolder than me by orders of magnitude) -- so I hope that you can get to a point in life where you don't need the victory of trolling on the internet with bad arguments and half-truths to bring yourself a sense of purpose. There is more to life than climbing and the internet.

You might disagree with the distinctions I've drawn, and truth be told I don't care if you do, the facts are the facts and I won't argue them with you.

Anyway, I hope all is well with you and best of luck.

Cheers,
James


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By Doug Hemken
Administrator
Dec 29, 2013
On Everleigh Club Crack.  Photo by Burt Lindquist.

This post was originally a comment in South Bluff - North Face Gullies

Doh! I thought this reminded me of the Skillet Creek discussion.


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By Tradoholic
Dec 29, 2013

This post was originally a comment in South Bluff - North Face Gullies

LOL! I won simply by wasting your time ;) Enjoy your "contrivances"...suckers.


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By James M Schroeder
From Sauk County, WI
Dec 29, 2013
Photo by Pete "Coach" Arndt

This post was originally a comment in South Bluff - North Face Gullies

Nick,

If you call what you're doing winning, then you might just want to double-check the definition. As for the "grief" you seem to think you're causing me, well, you're not much more annoying than reality TV to me - I don't typically watch, but when I do come upon it I just can't help but feel bad about the state of the world and hope that someday people figure out their priorities.

I wish you the best of luck dude, if your real-world persona is anything like your Internet persona you're going to need it.

Regards,
James


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By Paul Campbell
From Sussex, WI
Dec 29, 2013
Climbing Waimea 5.10d Rumney, NH

This post was originally a comment in South Bluff - North Face Gullies

Whoa guys no hate.


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By James M Schroeder
From Sauk County, WI
Dec 29, 2013
Photo by Pete "Coach" Arndt

Good call Doug, this is a better place for this discussion.


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