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May 11, 2006
Rock Climbing Photo: The one they call The Husky, Natasha Holliday, Esq...
What about adding a feature (in so far as it's possible) to sort routes as they appear if one was looking at the cliff. Right now, the routes are alphabetized and if there aren't good beta photos it can be hard to determine which route is where. The descriptions sometimes give clues (route Foo is to the left of Bar which is to the left of Baz) but that information is often incomplete.

It seems like this would be easy for sport climbing areas but might require a little more work for areas with complicated cliffs like Eldo. Any thoughts?
Dave Holliday
Joined Feb 3, 2003
1,275 points
May 12, 2006
Rock Climbing Photo: In the cow pasture below the Tre Cime de Lavaredo,...
This is a good idea, Dave. I've thought the same thing myself. I see several solutions:

1. Administrators and area contributors can list routes on the area page in left-to-right order. This has been done for several areas in Boulder Canyon, like Plotinus Wall, Avalon, Watermark, Riviera, Sport Park crags, Trout Rock, Lower Bowling Alley, Mile Hole Crag, and the Blob Rock crags. No software changes required; just some effort on the part of administrators and area contributors.

2. Add more beta photos that show routes in left-to-right order, like Plotinus Wall and Cactus Cliff.

3. An ordered list of routes in an area could be maintained as part of the database. When a new route is added, the person adding the route could place it in the proper place on the list. Site administrators could modify the list order and correct any errors. Users would have the option of listing (and printing) the routes alphabetically or in left-to-right (or right-to-left) order.

Option 3 would require software changes. How hard would this be to implement, Andy? Of course, if this feature is implemented, a major effort would be required by site administrators to generate the ordered lists!
Ron Olsen
From Boulder, CO
Joined Jan 1, 2001
11,938 points
May 12, 2006
This would be an awesome feature.

I like Ron's option 2. An area with a nice overview pic is a huge aid to those visiting a cliff for the first time AND for complicated cliffs. The pics on the Cactus Cliff page are great. You know where to head and can spot your desired climb from a distance. This also helps choosing the right approach when there are several options.
Ryan Carlino
Joined Apr 25, 2005
167 points
May 12, 2006
Rock Climbing Photo: Artist Tears P3
These are all great ideas. But, unless it could be done automatically I feel that it would take a lot of administrative work to get it set up and then ongoing work to maintain it.

I'm feeling pretty time poor right now and couldn't think of adding it to my current workload!
John McNamee
From Littleton, CO
Joined Jul 29, 2002
1,929 points
May 12, 2006
Rock Climbing Photo: Artist Tears P3

Right now the only folks that have the rights to change stuff that has been submitted is the person who submitted it or an admin. To allow someone to alter a description, move a route, etc requires a fair bit of time consuming manual work to reassign or take ownership of one or more objects.

Some of the admins have kicked around an idea to turn the site into something like wikipedia where everyone has the rights to change whatever. There are plenty of positive aspects about such a change, (I'd do more climbing!), but alas also it could get really messy with people deleting stuff etc, flaming whatever. How would this be controlled or does it need controlling...

Right now when someone offers help and wants to work on an area I can give them temporary rights to make the changes, allocate the area to them and then once they have done their updates, I change it back to the way it was. Otherwise the person who submitted the info can't change it anymore. This sounds really simple and quick but it does more time than it appears.

Perhaps there is a way to do this without the admin overhead and hopefully Andy or Nick can provide some ideas about this.

I'm all for opening up the site to more volunteers and I certainly appreciate your offer to help. Email me if you have a certain or interest and I'll kick it around with the other admins. I'm just one of many.
John McNamee
From Littleton, CO
Joined Jul 29, 2002
1,929 points
May 23, 2011
Bumping this discussion...

First, I really appreciate having MP as a resource. I come here first when looking for anything climbing related.

But... I was wondering if routes at all crags are still listed alphabetically or if they ever got to being listed right to left or left to right, etc.

For smaller crags especially, I don't think it would be that difficult (actually I have no idea and reading some other related threads, it appears this isn't really that easy??) to note on the crag page that routes are listed left to right (or whatever). Having them listed Geographically would be immensely helpful.

As it is, matching a climb with a route can be kind of difficult if not impossible when they are listed alphabetically.
I would imagine that local crag-masters would step up to fix route ordering if there were problems and over time, any issues would be fixed, right?

I bring this up because recently I've been traveling and hitting small crags and using MP to get beta and while it's great to find a suitable crag, figuring out what we actually climbed afterwards usually involves looking at each route and trying to match the description with what we climbed. It usually works, but takes some time.
From California
Joined Aug 23, 2009
177 points
Site Landlord
May 24, 2011
Rock Climbing Photo: Personal Photo
I was using a beta version of our mobile app this weekend at Eldo, and really wishing it had a L to R listing of routes. So now I'm motivated. It's quite a hard problem, but I think I'll try to tackle it this summer. Nick Wilder
From The Bubble
Joined Jan 1, 2005
2,119 points
May 24, 2011
It's quite a hard problem, but I think I'll try to tackle it this summer.

Awesome man. Would be great to have this feature.
From California
Joined Aug 23, 2009
177 points
May 24, 2011
Rock Climbing Photo: Starting up the steep 7b crux of S├╝pervitamin.
Leo Paik has worked really hard on a lot of the pages for the Golden area. Almost every wall has a list of routes from left to right. Some are even broken into smaller sections so you can't get confused.

Just wanted to give a shout out to one of the admins who's doing a great job!

In a place like eldo it would be really nice to have.
From Golden, CO
Joined Mar 13, 2006
3,509 points
May 24, 2011
Rock Climbing Photo: Bandera
The method commonly used to enter routes around White Rock and Los Alamos involves putting a numeric prefix directly in the name of the route:
South/East side
It's kind of a clunky approach to database management, but it works ok for the time being.
Chris Wenker
From Santa Fe
Joined Dec 21, 2007
2,070 points
May 24, 2011
If you take a look at the Rumney page, an intrepid user (Lee Hansche) took it upon himself to add topos of every cliff with routes marked. I feel like similarly knowledgeable climbers could do the same for their home crags.

Crag Overview

Cliff Topo

Edit: Large picture is large.
Joined Apr 5, 2010
47 points
May 24, 2011
Rock Climbing Photo: Me doing my Jits thing (what I do when not climbin...
I know myself and a bunch of other climbers are developers and data guys. We'd be happy to help out however you decide. (as with the mobile app post earlier with having everyone wanting to chip in)
From Broomfield,Co
Joined Mar 9, 2011
17 points

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