Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
sliming up the Forks
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
 
By ryan albery
From Cruisertonfieldville
Jul 2, 2012
I've spent an easy 300 days at Paradise Forks, AZ, over the past twenty years, and over the last decade I've been slippery/greased off many of the holds on the steeper routes (Paradise Lost, Davidons Dihedral, Three Turkeys, Sign Language, and the last I was there, the start of Shitting Bricks was a joke) cause they are all slimed with chalk. If ever there was a place where you don't need chalk, the Forks is it! There's a sign at the bottom of the trail that reads, 'Do not throw rocks over the cliffs'... what are peoples' opinions if I made an additional, official looking sign that I mounted just below it saying, 'Do not climb with chalk'?

FLAG
By Colonel Mustard
From Reno, NV
Jul 2, 2012
Colonel Mustard
Good luck!

FLAG
By Alex McIntyre
From Tucson, AZ
Jul 2, 2012
In the traverse section, double rainbow in the bac...
Brushing is ~hard~

FLAG
By Peter Franzen
Administrator
From Phoenix, AZ
Jul 2, 2012
Belay
That's a tough one to fight. Telling people to stop slathering themselves with sunscreen just prior to climbing would be beneficial as well.

FLAG
By Aeryn
Jul 3, 2012
Me
How's about a big sign above that one that reads, "NOT EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO CLIMB EVERYTHING," because maybe that's where education needs to begin. Other folks might be smarter than me, but I am hard pressed to provide an example of another sport where we allow the athlete - recreational, or otherwise - to not just alter the landscape of the sport for his/her advantage, but to the detriment of others. Certainly we've got folks messing with themselves and their equipment, but tennis players laying grass seeds on clay courts because it suits them... cyclists altering road grades so they're easier to climb... not seeing it... So, pump yourself full of steroids, wear super sweat-soaking spidey gloves, wrap your fingers 'til your hands fit those rattley cracks, get an ooey-gooey pair of climbing shoes ... don't care so much until it starts to affect the experience for the rest of us. "Do not climb with chalk" signs should be posted everywhere.

FLAG
By Eric D
From Gnarnia
Jul 3, 2012
Born again on the last move of the Red Dihedral, h...
A much simpler solution than asking people to not climb with chalk is neutral colored chalk. I'm surprised that hasn't caught on.

FLAG
By Vaughne
Jul 3, 2012
Aeryn wrote:
Other folks might be smarter than me, but I am hard pressed to provide an example of another sport where we allow the athlete - recreational, or otherwise - to not just alter the landscape of the sport for his/her advantage, but to the detriment of others.

-Mountain bikers should not be allowed to use those damn knobby tires on the trails. They tear up the dirt and make it all bumpy and ugly!
-Same with horse packers. They should make the horses wear soft rubber shoes that don't tear up the trail. And they should wear those bags over their butts so they don't poop all over.
-Fishermen should not be allowed to use barbed hooks. They are killing too many fish and also littering the streams when their line get snagged.
-Skiiers should be forced to ski right next to the previous guy's line to save the powder! Every time I show up everything has been skiied off.
-I could go on, and on. The point is, EVERY outdoor sport impacts the environment it is conducted in. Chalk on rocks? Come on lady. It washes off naturally. In fact, I think there should be a sign that says "climbers MUST use chalk." Its all you purist non-chalk users that are getting your sweat and grime on the holds, and that doesn't just wash off.

FLAG
By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Jul 3, 2012
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of ...
Chalk.

+1

FLAG
 
By 1Eric Rhicard
Jul 3, 2012
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo
Aeryn, I see you still have your undies in a bunch over this chalk thing. I have been using it for close to 30 years despite guys like Paul Davidson (Davidson's Dihedral), Steve Grossman, and Peter Noebels being some of my favorite climbing partners. In all the years we climbed together I never heard a word about my evil habit from any of them. They lead by example. Oh and now and then they did suggest that if I hadn't chalked up so much I might not have fallen when I pumped out. Good natured ribbing. We had a lot of fun despite our difference of opinion on chalk.

It has been used for years and will keep being used. As far as altering the sport until you are climbing barefoot sans rope then perhaps you should just stay mum about this sport for what it is and the way it is currently practiced.

Unless, you really believe that 99.9 percent of climbers should quit using chalk so you don't have to see it. Oh and if "NOT EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO CLIMB EVERYTHING" No more top-roping or following for you.

Hey Aeryn, just because we disagree and a few other folks do also don't think we are all aholes. We just disagree and although it may not be apparent on here we won't hold your posts against you if we see you at chalky cliff anytime soon.

Hey Eric D. Keep your simple solutions to yourself. HaHa. Might be up there in a couple of days. Will let you know.

FLAG
By CJC
Jul 3, 2012
Sine Language

FLAG
By s.price
From PS,CO
Jul 3, 2012
 Morning Dew ,self portrait
ryan albery wrote:
what are peoples' opinions if I made an additional, official looking sign that I mounted just below it saying, 'Do not climb with chalk'?


Make sure it's made out of wood so someone can burn it in a campfire cause that's all the sign will be good for.

FLAG
By Eric D
From Gnarnia
Jul 3, 2012
Born again on the last move of the Red Dihedral, h...
Would be great to hang out EFR but I leave for 2 weeks of vacation on Friday. Have fun. Come up to the Waterfall this fall! It's not bad for Sedona choss.

FLAG
By Nick Stayner
From Billings, MT
Jul 3, 2012
Nick Stayner near the crux. Ryan Minton photo.
ryan albery wrote:
over the last decade I've been slippery/greased off many of the holds on the steeper routes (Paradise Lost, Davidons Dihedral, Three Turkeys, Sign Language, and the last I was there, the start of Shitting Bricks was a joke) cause they are all slimed with chalk.

You should be stoked. Just think of all the contact strength you're building!! Add a letter grade or two if your ego requires it and embrace the chalkscum!

FLAG
By Abel Jones
From Colorado Springs, CO
Jul 3, 2012
Nice Crisp day for an FA
Always felt the forks were grimy. Kinda like the 1st floor of the valley. Could it be those 300 days you and others have been there. Az has a plethora, if people could spread that hand grease around a bit and lay off top roping the forks once a week, nature would clean it up a bit. Just my thoughts

FLAG
By Aeryn
Jul 3, 2012
Me
So, Eric Rhicard, if I've got this right, until I am free soloing barefoot I should not be so brazen as to hold an opinion that differs from yours and the other 99%... or I can hold my own opinion as long as I don't express it... but you're kind enough to forgive my naivety in doing so (this time) and won't hold it against me... Tell you what, if I see you out at a chalky cliff, at the end of our climbing day, I'll buy you and yours a beer or pour you a shot - Jack Daniels, straight up? I should warn you though, whiskey makes me sassy. Cheers and good climbing!

FLAG
By Eric Krantz
From Black Hills
Jul 3, 2012
smoke break, pitch 5 or 6 (or 7??) of Dark Shadows
Eric wrote:
As far as altering the sport until you are climbing barefoot sans rope then perhaps you should just stay mum about this sport for what it is and the way it is currently practiced.


Yeah STFU about climbing unless you are barefoot.

PS ... buy a round now?

FLAG
 
By Aeryn
Jul 3, 2012
Me
Eric Krantz wrote:
Yeah STFU about climbing unless you are barefoot. PS ... buy a round now?


On me, Mr. Krantz. What're you drinking?

FLAG
By chuck claude
From Flagstaff, Az
Jul 4, 2012
First climb after knee surgery
Good luck enforcing that policy.

As for slimy, and those routes aren't that slimy. If you think they are go to Squamish and get onto polished routes. Now, they are glassy.

Have you thought that the routes you've mentioned also get climbed a lot these days. I've been there and Paradise Lost gets up to 6 ascents in a day ( ok, while getting my endurance back I'll do up to 15 laps on it before moving onto something else). Even routes like Pacing the Cage I've had to take a number for on some weekends. Although, it's not as crowded as some places, most of the routes see a fair amount of traffic. Just the fact that the routes are getting so much more traffic will make them slimey.

As for chalk, yes...it does wash off with the summer monsoons, and winter storms. There are bigger issues to get your tutu all bunched up.

FLAG
By Jeff Ludwig
From phoenix, Az
Jul 4, 2012
Chalk is cool.

FLAG
By 1Eric Rhicard
Jul 4, 2012
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo
Aeryn wrote:
So, Eric Rhicard, if I've got this right, until I am free soloing barefoot I should not be so brazen as to hold an opinion that differs from yours and the other 99%... or I can hold my own opinion as long as I don't express it... but you're kind enough to forgive my naivety in doing so (this time) and won't hold it against me... Tell you what, if I see you out at a chalky cliff, at the end of our climbing day, I'll buy you and yours a beer or pour you a shot - Jack Daniels, straight up? I should warn you though, whiskey makes me sassy. Cheers and good climbing!


I don't mind an opinion that differs, in fact I think it is great. These forums have actually caused me to change my mind about some things. I just think that if you are going to express discontent with others using chalk and describe it as altering the landscape then you need to stop using shoes as they leave black marks on limestone. Holds get polished with use even if there is no chalk. The cracks at IC are all being altered every day. The varnish is warn off as folks layback with a rack or draws against the wall.

Either way I will happily share a drink with you anytime if we chance to meet.

FLAG
By cmagee1
Jul 4, 2012
I sweat like hell. Sweat+slopers=no friction. Chalk exists because it's helpful. If it didn't work people wouldn't have started using it.

FLAG
By s.price
From PS,CO
Jul 4, 2012
 Morning Dew ,self portrait
That DAMN John Gill :)

FLAG
By Greg DeMatteo
From W. Lebanon, NH
Jul 4, 2012
30 years of climbing at the Forks and chalk is your problem? Not the Ponderosas that are slowy falling into the canyon? A few holds aren't the exact same as they were 3 decades ago and you want to unilaterally declare the Forks a chalk free zone?

FLAG
By Eric Krantz
From Black Hills
Jul 4, 2012
smoke break, pitch 5 or 6 (or 7??) of Dark Shadows
Aeryn wrote:
On me, Mr. Krantz. What're you drinking?


Normally I'd request a tall, frosty IPA, but, if you're buying, then a Singapore Sling, please. Shaken, not blended.

Not much of a fan of fireworks, but, goddamn, I LOVE the way they smell.

FLAG
 
By chuck claude
From Flagstaff, Az
Jul 5, 2012
First climb after knee surgery
Greg DeMatteo wrote:
30 years of climbing at the Forks and chalk is your problem? Not the Ponderosas that are slowy falling into the canyon? A few holds aren't the exact same as they were 3 decades ago and you want to unilaterally declare the Forks a chalk free zone?


Thank you for seeing the forest through the trees!!! There are problems andd there are problems. Lets be concerned with the big issues before we address the small ones (not to say the small ones shouldn't be addressed).

FLAG
By ryan albery
From Cruisertonfieldville
Jul 5, 2012
I'm a peaceful fellow, and I think it's generally wrong to be telling people what they can, or can't do- especially when it comes to climbing. I apologize for my original post coming off as such. Better wording for my hypothetical sign would probably have been, 'Please minimize the use of chalk'.

I'll never make such a sign cause I'd rather me and the minority of non-chalkers be a bit bummed out, rather than the majority of people that have posted here being downright mad about such a suggestion... but if I did, I'd make it out of hickory or mesquite, without any paint or stain, and attach it with a wingnut such that it's easy to remove...

s.price wrote:
Make sure it's made out of wood so someone can burn it in a campfire cause that's all the sign will be good for.


... so at least it would be good for a natural seasoning for the burgers and rib-eyes you're hopefully grilling up.

That said, I do think the overuse of chalk is detrimental to the sport of climbing. Overuse being the key word. As much for myself and welcoming civil comments from anyone else of course, here's what I see as the pros and cons of climbing with chalk:

The Goods:
-There's a cool, almost superhero feel to dipping your hands in chalk; heightens your focus, and increases your confidence for the task at hand.
-no doubt that a chalked hand sticks better to those butter-dished slopers.
-You can climb harder routes if you use chalk, especially if you have sweaty hands like I do.
-Good call Vaughne with non-chalked hands adding a layer of sweaty grime to the holds, which can be even slippery and harder to remove than chalk itself.

The Bad:
-People forgetting to close their bags after a climb, and then spilling piles of the stuff along the descent or at the base.
-Hangdoggin at a crux, and chalking up over and over again.
-For me at least, seeing a route (such as Queenfolia) all chalked up is just plain unsightly.
-While a good rain/monsoon can certainly help, I've been to the Forks during/after many a deluge, and the amount of chalk that gets washed away is minimal. That last good hold at the top of Watusi has been chalky white for the past 15 years.
-Tick marks are fine with me, but only when you wash/brush them off when you're done.

Greg DeMatteo is certainly correct in that the use of chalk is minor when compared to the other impacts climbers are having at the Forks, especially slinging the trees at the top for setting a rap line. What I usually do is loosely tie to a tree, with a bit of slack as a backup, and then throw in a couple pieces of gear at the edge of the cliff to take the brunt of the rappel. I'm absolutely against setting some fixed gear at this place, but I also wonder how many more raps that tree atop the Prow is going to hold.

Anyway, apologies to have come off as a purist who's pissing and moaning about using chalk at the Forks. But as a friendly suggestion, please try and minimize the use of the stuff when you can.

And to put my time and money where my mouth is, I'll probably head out there early next week with a couple of five gallon buckets and a plastic bristled brush... anyone have any suggestions on routes they would, or would not, like to see chalk free?

Happy climbing everyone!

FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>