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"shoulder season" warm layer geek-out

Original Post
Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450

Ok, spending WAY too much time thinking about this but...

I'm trying to find the right jacket for colder fall weather here in the Gunks. 35-50 degrees is the range I'm trying to cover, with some wind resistance. I think I run a little chillier than other people, seem to need a little bit more warmth.

Seems like there are lots of options for just warmth, but the wind part is what's giving me trouble. A couple of ideas I've gotten from here:

-Patagonia Capilene 4 Hoody, add the OR Helium 2 jacket I already own over it if windy (downside 2 pieces, potential to get pretty hot when moving)

-Arcteryx Fortrez Hoody supposedly offers some wind resistance, reportedly really good hood w/mask option, pretty expensive

-Marmot Ether Driclime Hoody supposedly good breathability, good wind resistance, a little insulation, probably a little delicate. Really light.

-Patagonia R1 and hopefully have its reputed warmth overwhelm its lack of wind resistance?

-something else?

Jeremy K · · Evergreen, CO · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 0

Patagonia piton?

divnamite · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 90

Patagonia R1 Hoody + Patagonia Houdini (not the Alpine Houdini) should do unless you run really really cold. They weight next to nothing and extremely versatile.

Climb with Patagonia R1 Hoody when the wind is low, clip the Houdini to your harness. If wind picks up, put on the Houdini.

Kai Larson · · Sandy, UT · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 436

Patagonia Piton Hybrid Hoody is the answer.

Dave Bn · · Boise, ID · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 10

Same concept as the Piton is the Wild Things wind pro hoody. $40 cheaper but doesn't have the sewn reinforcements of the piton. Made in the US.

Mine's handled abuse pretty well.

wildthingsgear.com/collecti…

Another option is the Melanzana hard face hoody. It's a more casual fit (the Wild Things is meant to be layered over). Hand made in Leadville, CO and still cheaper than the Piton.

melanzana.com/catalog/produ…

Brian Payst · · Carrboro,NC · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 10

Second vote for the R1 and Houdini combo. It's a really versatile set-up for very little weight. Unzip the R1 while climbing, zip it up and thrown on the hood at belays as needed, add the Houdini when the wind picks up.

Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450
Kai Larson wrote:Patagonia Piton Hybrid Hoody is the answer.
Jeremy and Kai how is the wind resistance on the piton? Have either of you also used the R1?
Rob Dillon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 760

You're at the Gunks? Why don't you try rooting around in your closet, or maybe a thrift store. It ain't like you're skiing a polar ice cap.

Edit: sorry, I know..if we don't buy more stuff the tairists win. Carry on.

Kai Larson · · Sandy, UT · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 436
Optimistic wrote: Jeremy and Kai how is the wind resistance on the piton? Have either of you also used the R1?
Wind resistance is not that great. The wind resistant panels aren't that big.

However, it's generally enough unless there's gale force winds.

I've used the R1. Piton Hybrid is more wind resistant.
Jeremy K · · Evergreen, CO · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 0
Optimistic wrote: Jeremy and Kai how is the wind resistance on the piton? Have either of you also used the R1?
I use the R1 a lot. Personally, if it is 35-50 and short multi-pitch, I would wear the R1 and carry a light puffy. Single pitch, switch to a heavy puffy. Might as well stay warm and comfy at the crag.

I don't have a piton, but it is supposed to be like a more wind resistant R1, so it seemed like another option for what you want.
Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450
Rob Dillon wrote:You're at the Gunks? Why don't you try rooting around in your closet, or maybe a thrift store. It ain't like you're skiing a polar ice cap. Edit: sorry, I know..if we don't buy more stuff the tairists win. Carry on.
Shoot, did I leave the polar ice cap part out? That's in December.

It actually DOES get kind of cold here, check this out!
youtube.com/watch?v=iWyWRLK…

Of course you're correct, Rob, and John Muir and Norman Clyde put us all to shame in terms of the gear they got after it with...but I think the world will keep turning if I'm a little cozier.

Main thing is that I want something with a balaclava-like hood, because taking off my glasses on a small belay ledge to put on a balaclava has seemed kind of sketchy in the past, and a hoody seemed like a good way around that...
Rob Dillon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 760

Yeah, that looks heinous. He gets a hoodie.

feedthehabit.com/outdoors/m…

Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450
Rob Dillon wrote:Yeah, that looks heinous. He gets a hoodie. feedthehabit.com/outdoors/m…
Christian gets after it for sure, many orders of magnitude beyond my little efforts. He will be stoked about the hoody!

That Melanzana looks nice, but I think more airflow than I'm hoping for...
divnamite · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 90
Optimistic wrote:Main thing is that I want something with a balaclava-like hood, because taking off my glasses on a small belay ledge to put on a balaclava has seemed kind of sketchy in the past, and a hoody seemed like a good way around that...
You wear balaclava when climbing? My glasses always get fogged up with balaclava on. Honestly thought, you best bet is R1 Hoody + Houdini . They both come with close fitting hood (under the helmet). I think if you really run cold, then try on Nano and you are good to go. Both Houdini and Nano Hoody can be clip to your harness.
Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425
Optimistic wrote:Ok, spending WAY too much time thinking about this but... I'm trying to find the right jacket for colder fall weather here in the Gunks. 35-50 degrees is the range I'm trying to cover, with some wind resistance. I think I run a little chillier than other people, seem to need a little bit more warmth. Seems like there are lots of options for just warmth, but the wind part is what's giving me trouble. A couple of ideas I've gotten from here: -Patagonia Capilene 4 Hoody, add the OR Helium 2 jacket I already own over it if windy (downside 2 pieces, potential to get pretty hot when moving) -Arcteryx Fortrez Hoody supposedly offers some wind resistance, reportedly really good hood w/mask option, pretty expensive -Marmot Ether Driclime Hoody supposedly good breathability, good wind resistance, a little insulation, probably a little delicate. Really light. -Patagonia R1 and hopefully have its reputed warmth overwhelm its lack of wind resistance? -something else?
Things I have...

Pata cap 4 hoodie
Pata R1
Marmot Ether Driclime
Arcteryx atom LT
Pata houdini - warmer days

All great for the range you are talking about. I use the Pata cap 3 too to climb and skin in. Depending on what I'm doing I also have a marmot driclime vest. Pair that up with the cap 3 or 4 and it's kick ass.

Depending on what I'm doing / climbing / skiing I mix and match up these combos. All of them have served me well in regards to warmth, weight, breathability, packability etc.
Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450
divnamite wrote: You wear balaclava when climbing? My glasses always get fogged up with balaclava on. Honestly thought, you best bet is R1 Hoody + Houdini . They both come with close fitting hood (under the helmet). I think if you really run cold, then try on Nano and you are good to go. Both Houdini and Nano Hoody can be clip to your harness.
I have this very thin polypro balaclava that does a nice job of keeping my neck and ears warm. I don't usually cover my mouth when I wear it, so that keeps the foggage down. It's quite snug, though, so I have to take my glasses off to put it on which is a little nerve-wracking when way off the deck.
Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450
Scott McMahon wrote: Things I have... Pata cap 4 hoodie Pata R1 Marmot Ether Driclime Arcteryx atom LT Pata houdini - warmer days All great for the range you are talking about. I use the Pata cap 3 too to climb and skin in. Depending on what I'm doing I also have a marmot driclime vest. Pair that up with the cap 3 or 4 and it's kick ass. Depending on what I'm doing / climbing / skiing I mix and match up these combos. All of them have served me well in regards to warmth, weight, breathability, packability etc.
Can you say a little more about the Ether? Looks like really good wind protection, but is it warm? Too warm?
mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885

I have nearly all the pieces you've mentioned (and then some)

Piton is very versatile but in the hoody version the windpro panels are pretty limited. The Jacket version actually provides more wind protection and is what I opted for. It seems to me to be SLIGHTLY less bulky than an R1 Hoody and about equal in warmth. If the wind really gets going the R1 will feel colder but the Piton won't block it all either.

OF these two I prefer the Piton, especially as the smooth outer face fabrics hold up better to rock wear and tear.

Skip the Arcteryx Fortrez and Konseal. They're nice pieces but light and WAAY too $$ for what you get.

Cap 4 Hoody is very nice and probably a tier above the R1 for most uses. Note though that it's WAY more air permeable and you'll loose a lot of heat to any wind thus requiring a windshell (Houdini etc)
If you run cold the R1 might win here. I run warm and prefer the Cap4

Marmot DriClme Ether (or Rab VapourRise Lite) These always are the dark horses. The masses don't seem to buy into the style (light, lined wind shirt/shell) even though they're really one of the original "soft shell" concepts. Most consider the warmth on par with 200WT fleece give or take (I usually say a TAD less warm) These pieces have been my typical favorites for cool and windy weather climbing for more than a decade. Nicely breathable, somewhat light and wind cutting. The two dings I give against these pieces are when the temps get truly cold, they simply don't have the heft to keep you warm and the outer shell is not as durable to rock wear and thrashing as a fleece would be (Keep this in mind as the same is true for a Houdini shell or the like) Now, I will say I've pounded on my DriClime pretty hard and it's done well. I credit this to the looseness of the outer shell. It's not "tight" like a puffy shell and tends to move and slide a lot more. This keeps the snagging and pulling down a lot. I'd give the Driclime shell a notch or two more durability than a Houdini (which I have not beaten as much to test) RE colder temps - If the mercury is dropping I will climb in my DriClime and then throw on a puffy at the belay or ground (MicroPuff, Atom LT, Access LT etc )

All that said, these days with true, cold weather climbing like you indicate (40s and down) the FULL WindPro hard face fleeces have caught my attention. Rab Shadow, BD Tangent, WT WindPro and that Melanzana Hoody all fit the same space. The WindPro doesn't breath as well but it's at least as warm as the R1 with wind protection and abrasion resistance. I like it from my limited use.

I'd look at either the full WindPro or DriClime with Puffy options depending on your budget and how versatile you want to to be. WindPro will match colder conditions "better"but the combo setup will likely cover a broader range.

If you're leaning more the Cap4 / R1 route consider a ultralight softshell wind piece in lieu of the Houdini. Pieces like the BD Alpine Start or Rab Boreas are a better choice IMO.

Nick Votto · · CO, CT, IT · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 320
Optimistic wrote: Shoot, did I leave the polar ice cap part out? That's in December. It actually DOES get kind of cold here, check this out! youtube.com/watch?v=iWyWRLK… Of course you're correct, Rob, and John Muir and Norman Clyde put us all to shame in terms of the gear they got after it with...but I think the world will keep turning if I'm a little cozier. Main thing is that I want something with a balaclava-like hood, because taking off my glasses on a small belay ledge to put on a balaclava has seemed kind of sketchy in the past, and a hoody seemed like a good way around that...
Haha I love that you're still wearing your helmet and goggles in the car...I've done that after many long and hard days!
lucander · · Stone Ridge, NY · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 260

For the Gunks, R-1 all the way. I climb at the your crag (Gunks) year round. 30 and sunny, I'm totally happy in a black R-1 with a handwarmer in my chalk bag. It's not a very durable fabric, but mine has still lasted 5+ years. It's not great in wind, but how often is that an issue at the Gunks anyway? That garment is lightweight, warm, and feels natural when climbing. Plus, take off your base t-shirt and the R-1 is perfect for a dusk run on the carriage roads because it breathes so well. I've also worn the R-1 on many Red Rocks shiver-fests up Black Velvet wall. The chest zipper not only stores topos, it is also a good place for an extra body/hand warmer.

jdejace · · New England · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 5
divnamite wrote:Patagonia R1 Hoody + Patagonia Houdini (not the Alpine Houdini) should do unless you run really really cold. They weight next to nothing and extremely versatile. Climb with Patagonia R1 Hoody when the wind is low, clip the Houdini to your harness. If wind picks up, put on the Houdini.
Why not the Alpine?
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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