By Yarp
Feb 20, 2012
| This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project. |
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By fat cow
From Salinas, CA
Feb 20, 2012
| sure it would work, if your excellent at recovering from getting ripped off of your feet to arrest in time before plummeting over the edge. yes it seems like a bad idea, just carry 40m of super thin dynamic if you need weight savings so badly.
at least there is a disclaimer
Note: The down side of using a static rope is that catching a crevasse fall will be harder, as more force is transferred to the person(s) on top | 
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By JLP
From The Internet
Feb 20, 2012
| fat cow wrote: The down side of using a static rope is that catching a crevasse fall will be harder, as more force is transferred to the person(s) on top
A static will be fine. This is fine advice. Your main trade-off is making sure you can ascend the thinner line. If you are roped up and walking correctly, there should be little to no shock load. The vast majority of crevasse falls can be held standing up, leaning slightly away from the pull. Jumping on your axe and getting dragged is a very unlikely scenario. At angles greater than self arrest, with belay and intermediate anchors, you'll probably want a dynamic. |
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By Yarp
Feb 20, 2012
| JLP wrote: A static will be fine. This is fine advice. Your main trade-off is making sure you can ascend the thinner line. If you are roped up and walking correctly, there should be little to no shock load. The vast majority of crevasse falls can be held standing up, leaning slightly away from the pull. Jumping on your axe and getting dragged is a very unlikely scenario. At angles greater than self arrest, with belay and intermediate anchors, you'll probably want a dynamic.
Really. Do you often tie into a static line? I'd never even consider doing this if it is at all possible to "fall" onto the line.
Go ahead an get a chunk of static line and take a two maybe three foot fall onto it. (Make sure your anchor is super burly and you might want to use steel biners or at least double them up!)Then do the same with a chunk of dynamic and let us know if you still have the same opinion.
The fact that people are using a static line for glacier travel is not evidence that it is a good idea. Climbing ropes and ropes designed specifically for glacier travel are made dynamic for a reason. |
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By superkick
From West Hartford, CT
Feb 21, 2012
| line for glacier travel is pretty damn cheap... you can biuy a 30M 8mm dynamic rope for around $60.
Im not seeing much of a cost savings, and all youre getting from a static rope is more physical pain.
but to each his own. |
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By kBobby
From Spokane, WA
Feb 21, 2012
| Great link, Jared. Especially this: "...dogma and/or speculation should not provide the answers to these questions." |
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By Crag Dweller
From Denver, CO
Feb 21, 2012
| The premise of the original link is wrong. Dynamic rope isn't necessarily more expensive than static line.
30mx8mm Edelweiss Dynamic Rope = $90. 30mx7/16" BlueWater Static Rope = $93.
Why wouldn't you use a dynamic line? I don't think that a shorter fall is really worth the disadvantages of a static line. |
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By thomas ellis
From abq
Feb 21, 2012
| Which one can be used in multiple scenarios? Why carry gear with limitations to your potential needs? |
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By Yarp
Feb 21, 2012
| That editing going on up above is a bunch of bull shit.
There was absolutely NOTHING wrong or offensive about my first post.
Who keeps following me around this website and deleting my comments for no reason? |
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By fat cow
From Salinas, CA
Feb 21, 2012
| This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project. |
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By Yarp
Feb 21, 2012
| I guess having an opinion that differs from an admin/mod is now also a violation of Guideline #1 |
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By superkick
From West Hartford, CT
Feb 21, 2012
| must be hard to have a lot of climbing experience when your busy modding itnerwebs posts all day, and drinking faygo. |
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By fat cow
From Salinas, CA
Feb 21, 2012
| wow you're right, thinkin they may be just trying to get a rise out of yarp... my comment wasn't that jerkish, it wasn't even directed at anyone who's transparent. "dont be a jerk." how can someone be a jerk to nobody? |
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By Brian in SLC
From Salt Lake City, UT
Feb 21, 2012
| fat cow wrote: Note: The down side of using a static rope is that catching a crevasse fall will be harder, as more force is transferred to the person(s) on top
I don't think anyone would notice the difference.
A nylon static rope has a fair amount of stretch anyhow, but, really, a crevasse fall, even a belayed one, is a really dynamic action in itself. So much so, that, I really think it doesn't matter if the rope is dynamic or static.
For pure glacier travel, I'd think a lightweight static line would be fine. Static lines tend to have thicker sheaths, which, would handle the abuse better. I usually have skied on large glaciers as approaches to climbs, and, using my main lead line while stepping on it with crampons, or, maybe worse, metal edges on skis, is gonna trash that rope.
I think in the alps especially, its fairly common to see folks use short static ropes for glacier crossings.
Kinda depends on what your doing. Peak bagging without any or much steep climbing on a glaciated peak? Probably doesn't matter if whatever rope is static or dynamic. Approach across a large glacier to a technical climb? Be nice to have a short, light static for the glacier and a fresh, non-hammered lead rope or two for the "real" climbing.
You or your partner's chances of taking a hard crevasse fall on a dry glacier are pretty minimal. Where you're going to experience a big fall is a pop through a snow bridge. When that happens, the rope is going to cut through the snow a long ways, you might get pulled off your feet, or, at least dive down in self arrest position, so, the peak load on any rope is going to be fairly low. Certainly not near as high as dropping a weight off a bridge!
I've always used thin dynamic ropes in the past (dozen or so trips to the AK and St. Elias range). I'd probably consider a lightweight static for the pure glacier travel, especially livin' out of a sled and skiing for travel.
Would I use a 6mm static made from kevlar or dyneema for glacier travel? Depending on the venue, I'd probably consider it. |
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By Peter Franzen
Administrator
From Phoenix, AZ
Feb 21, 2012
| It just seems like the cost difference is too small to really make much of a difference.
Plus, if worst came to worst and a situation called for it you could use a dynamic 40m/8mm glacier rope as a lead line. The same couldn't be said about a static rope. |
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By fat cow
From Salinas, CA
Feb 21, 2012
| interesting |
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By superkick
From West Hartford, CT
Feb 21, 2012
| It just seems pointless to carry an additional rope, soley for glacier travel that youre going to have to carry up the mountain and have no use for after.
I guess if you subscribe to the american climbing philosophy of carrying useless gear, and rocking 75+L packs, then its worth having. |
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By Taylor-B.
From CO & AK
Feb 21, 2012
| Static lines and short ropes are 99% of the time a bad idea for glacier travel. #1. Crevasse falls hurt and generate a huge amount of force on the victim and the rescuer. #2 That force can pull the rescuer in an undesirable direction, like face first towards the crevasse. #3 Short ropes do not give you enough extra rope to set up rescue systems , good luck having 1 or 2 rescuers pull you out on a 3:1, you need more like a 5:1 or a Canadian drop loop system. #4 Having a short rope puts the rescuer closer to the lip of the crevasse and gives you less throw to reset you recue system. #5 Short ropes can put every one on the rope team in dangerous positions while trying to navigate through heavily crevassed areas. #6 Static lines are not that supple and prussiks don’t bite as well. #7 Static lines are not meant to take lead falls, this can minimize were you can go in the mountains and can lead to dangerous and undesirable route options. Happy Glacier Roulette.
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