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Shoe prices about to go up
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By Tony T.
From Denver, CO
Nov 30, 2012
Getting up the Great Dihedral on Hallet Peak, RMNP.
Ryan, show some respect. I never called the previous President an insulting moniker, despite your assumption that all lefty liberals probably did. Just because you don't like his politics doesn't mean you can insult the head of the Executive branch by calling him "Barry". Sorry he won, and sorry your politics don't seem to mix with more than half of the rest of population. We lived through the previous President. I have the utmost confidence that you will too.

Regardless, do I think it's a bad thing? No. These are luxury items and they've been avoiding paying import duties for years. Sorry guys, but we need the money for the rest of the country who tend not to have the luxury to pursue inherently selfish activities right now. Climbing borders on being an activity of the privileged classes.

Like other international members have stated, welcome to the rest of the world's climbing shoe prices. Do you know how many jaws I have to pick up off the floor at work when Europeans and Asians see how cheap climbing gear is here? Italians and the French don't even get products made in their own country this cheap.

You've been living in an economic fantasy for too long. We need better services, the free market does not have our best interests in mind. We are going to have to grow up and act like the rest of the industrialized world and pay for it. It'll work out in the long run.

Also I'm not here to convince or be convinced, I'm just here to offer an alternative viewpoint. As such, I'm not going to reply or revisit this thread because it's not my job to convince anyone who isn't willing to be convinced in the first place.

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By Tony T.
From Denver, CO
Nov 30, 2012
Getting up the Great Dihedral on Hallet Peak, RMNP.
Oh, and Gary Neptune's comment is the best...

"However, Neptune Mountaineering owner Gary Neptune said he would be "happy" for the cost of shoes to increase. He said the international tariffs could force specialty shoemakers to bring manufacturing back to the U.S.

He added that if shoes become more expensive, consumers will hold on to them longer, which means less waste.

"If they have to keep (them) for a long time, that's better for the whole world," Neptune said."

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By mission
Nov 30, 2012
Ryan Williams wrote:
Obama trade protectionism stuff


Do we really believe that Obama supports heavy trade protections? This is an idea that has strongly fallen out of favor on either the left or the right over the past 2 decades. If anything, it is the Republican party which has recently made threats of increased tariffs, especially with regards to China. Of course, both parties are very guilty of heavily subsidizing farmers in states made important by the Electoral College.

It seems likely to me that this is just posturing in negotiations, not that I won't be buying shoes now as a hedge.

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By OldManRiver
From Cottonwood Heights, UT
Nov 30, 2012
Red Rock, Cannibal crag
is this a discussion about shoe prices or politics? Politics are incredibly boring/annoying to talk about.

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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Nov 30, 2012
Stoked...
OldManRiver wrote:
is this a discussion about shoe prices or politics? Politics are incredibly boring/annoying to talk about.


hahaha and shoes aren't???

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By Peter Stokes
From Them Thar Hills
Nov 30, 2012
Wall Street, Moab, UT
OldManRiver wrote:
is this a discussion about shoe prices or politics? Politics are incredibly boring/annoying to talk about.


Unfortunately in this instance the two are inextricably linked. I am waiting, though, for a political PAS thread...

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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Nov 30, 2012
El Chorro
Tony T. wrote:
Ryan, show some respect. I never called the previous President an insulting moniker, despite your assumption that all lefty liberals probably did. Just because you don't like his politics doesn't mean you can insult the head of the Executive branch by calling him "Barry". Sorry he won, and sorry your politics don't seem to mix with more than half of the rest of population. We lived through the previous President. I have the utmost confidence that you will too.


Well I'll start by acknowledging that calling him "Barry" was demeaning. I wasn't trying to be insulting.

I may not agree with all of the President's ideas about the economy and how to fix it, but that doesn't mean that I'm totally against the guy and it also doesn't mean that I blame him for the current state. I voted for him in 2008. In 2012 I voted not to vote. I don't believe that America will ever be served well by the current electoral system so I chose not to participate. The government is broken and voting to make it either bigger or smaller is not going to fix it.

The politics of the problem don't matter. This has been going on for decades, through Republican and Democratic Presidents and Congresses. George W. Bush staged two wars using America's credit card while at the same time cutting taxes (revenue). Clinton deregulated the banks, but bankers had been interpreting the Glass-Steagall Act however they wanted Since Nixon. All the while Alan Greenspan sat back and watched it, thinking that it was good!

The system has been misused and toyed with by everyone for longer than many of us have been alive. They made a lot of money (and a lot of mistakes) and they kept us quiet by making sure we were all either busy, stupid or rich, and that no matter what group you belonged to, you still had enough money to by a pair of Nike's.

It's not just in the US. The Brits are the ones who invented the most insane financial derivative products. When US bankers got wind of how easy it was to make money in this fashion, they started doing it and ultimately got Clinton to make it LEGAL to do it. It was already legal in the UK, but now they are thinking of imposing laws here that are very similar to the ones that Clinton had repealed in '99. Ironic isn't it.

The only difference is that in the UK, instead of making Nike's cheap, they made healthcare free and gave out tons of public housing and benefits. But their bankers were doing the same thing - making shit loads of money and keeping the public quiet. Now people here are addicted to their NHS and benefits just like Americans are addicted to their cheap goods.

It's time to stop living in a dream world. Regardless of politics, people talk the talk, but few want to walk the walk. We have enjoyed the overindulgence of the past. All of us. Americans have enjoyed their low cost living and Europeans have enjoyed their social welfare programs. And now the time comes to pay for it, none of us want to.

Tony T. wrote:
Regardless, do I think it's a bad thing? No. These are luxury items and they've been avoiding paying import duties for years. Sorry guys, but we need the money for the rest of the country who tend not to have the luxury to pursue inherently selfish activities right now. Climbing borders on being an activity of the privileged classes. Like other international members have stated, welcome to the rest of the world's climbing shoe prices. Do you know how many jaws I have to pick up off the floor at work when Europeans and Asians see how cheap climbing gear is here? Italians and the French don't even get products made in their own country this cheap. You've been living in an economic fantasy for too long.


Right on. I think we agree. Seriously, imagine paying 105 Euro for a pair of climbing shoes while living in Spain or Italy. I don't need to tell you what the economies are like there (horrible). Talk about a first world problem... if an increase in the prices of climbing shoes isn't one then I don't know what is.

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By akafaultline
Nov 30, 2012
okay-so while the politics is interesting and all-what i want to know is what specifically is the tariff going to affect. Will all of La sportivas boots (and other companies) be affected-in other words will the shoes made in italy be affected or just the boots made in asia (or both)?

And why is the tariff up to 39%-will the tariff percentage be based upon the original country of manufacturing?

And when will this likely occur realistically speaking? The articles state that sportiva has already determined that they have set their prices for the first part of 2013. So, can we expect a pair of spantiks to cost $1100 by mid 2013?

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By bearbreeder
Nov 30, 2012
ill bet the price of made in USA shoes go up as well ...

its the perfect opportunity to raise prices when your competitors are forced to as well ...

remember "five ten" is now adidas, a multi national corp anyways ... they arent selling for the good of your little climbers hearts ;)

less competition almost always leads to higher prices in consumer goods

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Nov 30, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.
The economy sucks. Unemployment is high. The cost of gas (relatively for Americans) has skyrocketed over the past decade and so has the general cost of living and getting an education. I know of no one that has stopped climbing, or buying goods necessary for it because of the aforementioned facts. People still buy SUVs, $300 down jackets, $200 smart phones, ice climbing equipment (j/k), etc.

The simple fact is, that because we are Americans, we are consumers- as has been alluded to if not outright stated over and over. If the price increases, so what? We will continue to buy. And because we do, the price will continue to rise. I wish it was more complicated and not so utterly simple (while at the same time divulging our utterly idiotic consumer culture), but it is.

There are a few of us that do as much as they can with as little as they can, and I salute them. However, this is the exception and not the rule.

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By Eric G.
From Saratoga Springs, NY
Nov 30, 2012
Ryan Williams wrote:
The 99% wanted American corporations to bring jobs back to the US. Well, the best way to do that is to penalize a corporation who keep jobs abroad, and the only way to do that is through taxes.


Bringing manufacturing jobs back to America in a globalized world is a lot more complicated than that. Tariffs probably won't create good jobs at home -- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecti...

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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Nov 30, 2012
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.
Richard88 wrote:
If prices do go up, all I see is a job opportunity for American climbers looking for a job in the climbing industry. If Sportivas go up to 200ish bucks then it would be lucrative for a company to manufacture shoes in the US creating decent paying jobs and putting an affordable product on the market by avoiding taxes on goods manufactured overseas. The benefit to the climber is they get a product for close to current prices and their buddy or climbing partner gets a sweet job making climbing shoes.


That makes some rather unlikely assumptions.
The whole reason why they are made overseas is that they'd already cost that amount if made here.
So what they are doing is leveling the playing field with hatchet and saw.
Maybe the manufacturing will come back here... but the price is still going up. Now, ask me what I think will happen to quality when pretty much everyone doing the job will be new to it...

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By mission
Dec 2, 2012
fyi, they are not doing this because it would be stupid.

dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/...

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