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Shockley's Ceiling Short Guy Beta

Original Post
neils · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2016 · Points: 30

I've been climbing indoors and outdoors consistently for 4 months. Prior to that I climbed 4 times outdoors over a 20 year period. In the past 4 months I've been to Gunks 3 times, Peterskill 3 times, Powerlinez 3 times. Gym a bunch. I'm getting better :)

Today I went to the Gunks and we climbed Asphodel which I was able to climb then tried Shockleys which I expected would be out of my league. I was a little intimidated at first but I think I did ok. I got up to the ceiling on the 3rd pitch and I almost had it. But not quite. I tried a few times until I got tired out. I've never pulled a roof outdoors. I've done some overhanging bouldering in the gym. I am 5'6". I was able to get my arms out and over the top of the roof and I was walking my feet out as far as I could. I just couldn't pull over. My leader/partner today is 6'3" and a bit more experienced than me so his body type is obviously different.

I really didn't know what to do. I don't think my issue was strength, I think I was not really sure how to approach it. Should I have hand jammed in the crack under the ceiling? I saw one photo where a guy was creeping his knee under. I know its known to be a hard move for a short person but its obviously possible. I'd like to try it again the next time I am back but wanted some advice from someone with a similar body type. I think I can get it next time...I was so close. :)

John M · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 321

Here's my instructions for how to climb Shockley's Ceiling in the lamest, inelegant manner possible, flailing the whole time and cursing like a drunken sailor:

  • position your body as Dick Williams does in the famous photo, with your right hand as high as you can get it in the crack, left hand locked off on a crimp, right shoulder against the inside corner of the nose.
  • Attempt to put your right toe on the nose, but miss it entirely, kicking into the air.
  • Attempt to find a secret jug higher in the crack, lower in the crack, level with the crack, and everywhere else you see chalk.
  • Some of the chalk is yours, so check again.
  • Add another piece, just in case the bomber cam and the monster piton blow.
  • Acknowledge that your belayer has shouted useless advice to you, like, "can you get a high foot?"
  • Do a pull-up, Go Army, and slam your right knee against the nose.
  • Attempt a smear with your left foot, but miss and use your knee instead.
  • Now you are on two knee smears, but the hands are good. Plus, you are committed at this point.
  • Finish it without remembering how and enjoy the huge rest ledge.
  • Swear you will never lead this again.
  • Tell everyone you got it without much difficulty, and it should really be a 5.5.
Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616
john2.71 wrote:Here's my instructions for how to climb Shockley's Ceiling in the lamest, inelegant manner possible, flailing the whole time and cursing like a drunken sailor: * position your body as Dick Williams does in the famous photo, with your right hand as high as you can get it in the crack, left hand locked off on a crimp, right shoulder against the inside corner of the nose. * Attempt to put your right toe on the nose, but miss it entirely, kicking into the air. * Attempt to find a secret jug higher in the crack, lower in the crack, level with the crack, and everywhere else you see chalk. * Some of the chalk is yours, so check again. * Add another piece, just in case the bomber cam and the monster piton blow. * Acknowledge that your belayer has shouted useless advice to you, like, "can you get a high foot?" * Do a pull-up, Go Army, and slam your right knee against the nose. * Attempt a smear with your left foot, but miss and use your knee instead. * Now you are on two knee smears, but the hands are good. Plus, you are committed at this point. * Finish it without remembering how and enjoy the huge rest ledge. * Swear you will never lead this again. * Tell everyone you got it without much difficulty, and it should really be a 5.5.
Yup, you captured it beautifully.
neils · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2016 · Points: 30
john2.71 wrote:Here's my instructions for how to climb Shockley's Ceiling in the lamest, inelegant manner possible, flailing the whole time and cursing like a drunken sailor: * position your body as Dick Williams does in the famous photo, with your right hand as high as you can get it in the crack, left hand locked off on a crimp, right shoulder against the inside corner of the nose. * Attempt to put your right toe on the nose, but miss it entirely, kicking into the air. * Attempt to find a secret jug higher in the crack, lower in the crack, level with the crack, and everywhere else you see chalk. * Some of the chalk is yours, so check again. * Add another piece, just in case the bomber cam and the monster piton blow. * Acknowledge that your belayer has shouted useless advice to you, like, "can you get a high foot?" * Do a pull-up, Go Army, and slam your right knee against the nose. * Attempt a smear with your left foot, but miss and use your knee instead. * Now you are on two knee smears, but the hands are good. Plus, you are committed at this point. * Finish it without remembering how and enjoy the huge rest ledge. * Swear you will never lead this again. * Tell everyone you got it without much difficulty, and it should really be a 5.5.
thanks John - insightful and entertaining. I'll be back to try again!!!
Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616
neils wrote:My leader/partner today is 6'3" and a bit more experienced than me so his body type is obviously different. I really didn't know what to do. I don't think my issue was strength, I think I was not really sure how to approach it. Should I have hand jammed in the crack under the ceiling? I saw one photo where a guy was creeping his knee under. I know its known to be a hard move for a short person but its obviously possible. I'd like to try it again the next time I am back but wanted some advice from someone with a similar body type. I think I can get it next time...I was so close. :)
They probably shouldn't have taken you up Shockley's. Once you understand the move it's perhaps 5.8-ish (tricky single 5.8 sequence). But to do it without beta as a new climber is a cruel joke by your partner.

I'm also 6' 3" and won't assume how I do it is how you will do it. For taller people it ends up being a left heel hook, then you're able to get enough momentum off that to get your right foot up. It's been a while since I climbed it, and have held true to my words to not bother with it ever again. IMO there's plenty of better climbs at the Gunks. Shockley's is really about that photo, were it not for that classic photo it would see maybe half the traffic it does.
neils · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2016 · Points: 30
Kevin Heckeler wrote: They probably shouldn't have taken you up Shockley's. Once you understand the move it's perhaps 5.8-ish (tricky single 5.8 sequence). But to do it without beta as a new climber is a cruel joke by your partner. I'm also 6' 3" and won't assume how I do it is how you will do it. For taller people it ends up being a left heel hook, then you're able to get enough momentum off that to get your right foot up. It's been a while since I climbed it, and have held true to my words to not bother with it ever again. IMO there's plenty of better climbs at the Gunks. Shockley's is really about that photo, were it not for that classic photo it would see maybe half the traffic it does.
that is exactly how he did it. heel hook with the left foot - I am not sure if that was really an option for me. We talked about it might be over my head before we started - we were ok and I wasn't rattled but we probably should have kept it in the TRUE 5.6 range so to speak.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
Kevin Heckeler wrote: They probably shouldn't have taken you up Shockley's. Once you understand the move it's perhaps 5.8-ish (tricky single 5.8 sequence). But to do it without beta as a new climber is a cruel joke by your partner..
Gabe where you at? I hope you read this. I know this will only get you stoked :)

This dude cruised Shockley's third day outside. Must have had a good teacher.
neils · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2016 · Points: 30
Bill Kirby wrote: Gabe where you at? I hope you read this. I know this will only get you stoked :) This dude cruised Shockley's third day outside. Must have had a good teacher.
that's impressive!!!

as an aside I don't think my partner had any ill intent. We discussed the possibility I might not make that move in advance. Maybe not in as much detail as we should have but we still acknowledged it as a possibility. He had not climbed it in a long time, not sure he recalled how hard it is.
Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616
Bill Kirby wrote: Gabe where you at? I hope you read this. I know this will only get you stoked :) This dude cruised Shockley's third day outside. Must have had a good teacher.
Some people have the the knack for climbing, right out of the gate [or come out of the gym strong enough to climb through their weaknesses]. I've known a few of them. But most new climbers will struggle on Shockleys. Heck, some experienced climbers struggle! :-/

mountainproject.com/v/accid…
neils · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2016 · Points: 30
Kevin Heckeler wrote: Some people have the the knack for climbing, right out of the gate [or come out of the gym strong enough to climb through their weaknesses]. I've known a few of them. But most new climbers will struggle on Shockleys. Heck, some experienced climbers struggle! :-/ mountainproject.com/v/accid…
the recent accident i had read about definitely was in my mind on the climb. as i was the second i felt pretty safe but i cant say it wasn't in my mind
Robert Hall · · North Conway, NH · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 27,827
About to fall.....

(and yes, you may have seen it before in Dick Dumais's book and for many years in the Mohonk visitor center. But it's not a copyright infringement since I took the photo and own the copyright.)
Suburban Roadside · · Abovetraffic on Hudson · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 2,419
Robert Hall wrote: (and yes, you may have seen it before in Dick Dumais's book and for many years in the Mohonk visitor center. But it's not a copyright infringement since I took the photo and own the copyright.)
a favorite picture of mine!
Ha! I knew that guy! Dave . Something?
He climbed a bunch with Jonathan Nesbit too.
It was always such a hoot, the goobs of inexcessable gear And yes about to fall!

To the OP having followed/climbed Alphonse ( way to go! )
Do you remember the sequence you used?
Do you see the two moves as mirroring one another?
you were right to give Shockley's Ceiling, a go , you'll get it.
And 5,6 is Not Short! not even close !

Edit,
my wife says that 5,6 is the top of short. . . .
So sorry short is in the eye of the beholder. .,
Chris Duca · · Dixfield, ME · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 2,330

Let me preface this by saying that I'm sure I'll piss people off, but this is my opinion based on 20+ years of experience with Shockley's:

The ";;move";; is not 5.8 nor is it height-dependent, as some might be suggesting, though I could see how a 5.6 leader might be feeling a little sandbagged as its not so straight forward. A small bit of crack climbing experience is necessary as is being able to read a sequence (locating the big, useful feet before committing) through an over-hanging corner/roof. Very secure jams can be found under the roof and immediately over it. Using these will allow you to hike your feet up (not really necessary for taller climbers) in order to reach the jug marking the end of the sequence. My wife is 5'1";; can make the move casually by using this beta.

Again, just my opinion and 2 cents...

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

I'm not a beta guy, but am willing to make a few comments nonetheless.

1. Yes, it is a hand crack through a ceiling, so if you know how to use the crack you have many more options. But there are so many good holds and laybacks that even without jamming technique you're ok.

2. The amount of good holds is part of the problem. If you keep reaching up, as it is tempting to do, you eventually flatten your body against the upper wall and then you have no ability to bring up your feet. Your hands have to stay low enough that you can lean out (and also to the side) and get a foot up.

3. Look carefully for where the lowest available footholds over the lip are located. They aren't in the first place you're likely to look.

neils · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2016 · Points: 30

Thanks all for the insight on this. I think I'll work at some roofs at a slightly lower grade then try this again.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
rgold wrote:But there are so many good holds and laybacks that even without jamming technique you're ok.
This. It's what so many seem to forget and is often the trick to keep a typical Gunks overhang crux at the rated grade.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Kevin Heckeler wrote:Once you understand the move it's perhaps 5.8-ish (tricky single 5.8 sequence).
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
If Shockley's - originally rated 5.5, btw - is a 5.8 that would make Bonnie's Roof at least 11b/c.

Sorry, in no conceivable way is Shockley's even remotely close to 5.8. Hell, it's easier than High Exposure.
Robert Hall · · North Conway, NH · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 27,827

Yes, it was originally rated a 5.5 by Bill Shockley & Doug Kerr in 1951. Also...done in 6 pitches!

I never climbed with Shockley but I did climb with Kerr...he was about 6 ft 2-inch (maybe 3) and strong as an ox! I do believe, however, that Shockley was also tall. I've never heard anybody complain that they felt "too tall" upon doing Shockley's.

Now, please do not mis-interpret, by no means do I think Shockley's is a 5.8, but here are a few other climbs from the era of Shockley's Ceiling: Raubenheimer Special (5.5, now 5.7) ; Jacob's Ladder (5.8, now 5.10b, and also remember the "5.8" was assigned pre-sticky-rubber) and, interestingly, High Exposure ( 5.7, now 5.6 / 5.6+) So as consensus builds, ratings change.

Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616

Here comes all the tough guy "this is 5.2" comments.

I'm not alone in thinking it's harder than the grade in the guide:

mountainproject.com/scripts…

Notice how there's no suggestions it's easier than the grade.

I'm certain not an expert on this climb (really only did the move the one time, didn't get to even try it the other) but it would seem the consensus suggests it's harder, which only confirms my impression.

Chris Duca · · Dixfield, ME · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 2,330

I certainly wouldn't suggest it's easier than 5.6, though truth be told I'm not sure I can tell the difference between a 5.5 and a 5.6. Not trying to be arrogant, just honest. Only 6 climbers, out of a laundry list of suitors, suggested it's 5.8. The rest were 28 5.7s, but most folks (41 in total) suggested 5.6. I'd also like to know how many of those folks who gave it a difficulty rating of harder than 5.6 were climbing it for their first time, or were new climbers at the time of going up on it. Experience and familiarity with the style of climbing are important here.

Assigned difficulties are suggestions, and the current consensus doesn't seem to indicate a majority swing for increasing the grade. I don't own that ridiculous Gunks guidebook that was written by a non-local sone years ago, but I'd be curious what that author gave it? 5.9?

june m · · elmore, vt · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 110

I am only 4'10, and I dont have any reach problems on shockleys, the beta is always move your feet up first

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northeastern States
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