running a 24 volt drill on a car battery?????
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I am real sick of using my hand drill to set bolts! I've had a 24v cordless drill for a while but my friend lost the charger and it could only get about 2 or 3 holes in sandstone before running out of juice. |
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sad, indeed |
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Dude, |
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Use a hand-drill, If a 24V hardware store drill works in the rock you are drilling then a hand-drill will work almost just as well. Plus hand drilled routes (esp. in granite) are never overbolted. |
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It is possible... |
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Thanks for the input Junior, and thanks for the link Perin. That's pretty much what I wanted to hear. |
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Hey Avery, I think this guy is calling us jerks.... |
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I looked over that fish article would add two bits of advice. Never solder directly to batteries. You run a very high risk of damaging the battery and maybe yourself. Secondly, if buying lead acid batteries, be sure to buy deep cycle batteries. Normal Car (Starter) batteries are not meant to be discharged all the way. Doing so will cause permanent damage to the battery. |
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Contact Tod Anderson (listed in people section of this site) |
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Another idea is that most aircraft run off of 24v batteries and they very in size quite a bit. By using one of these batteries you alleviate the need of connecting two batteries together. The one bad thing about this is that anything that has to do with aviation generally cost 4-10 times as much. I think you can get one for around 150-200 bucks but you have to shop a bit. I might have a few laying around I could part with but preferably not. |
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mbrejcha wrote:Avery and Lee, SEE GUIDELINE #1. If you don't like talking about bolting,then stay out of SPORT forum.mbrejcha: I've thought about your comment towards me. It's worthy to recognize that the topic you raised (power bolting, and likely on rappel) is a debated/political topic. It's that way for a very good reason. You may not agree with it, but, in fact, it is a debated issue within the climbing community. The question you asked ties directly to that debate. So, it follows that you may get some feedback that isn't in support. Let me leverage a similar situation. If you had posted "I'm really bummed that my cam hooks aren't holding me up because the soft desert sandstone crumbles when I use them. How can I make them hold better when the sandstone crumbles?" You'd probably expect to receive some heat about this. So, maybe (and hopefully) that example is a little clearer as to why when you bring up a debated topic, people will present their opinions. I won't go into the details of why I personally think more thought and planning should be put into what is be bolted, and that power bolting leads to overall less-thought in the bolting process. But, it is an issue that does and will affect all types of climbers in a permanent sense, regardless of in which forum it's posted. In the end, being able to differentiate between some friendly political sarcasm and a personal attack is pretty important. Nothing personal was implied in my posting, so please don't read it that way. Cheers. Go out and climb something fun. Avery |
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I've got a couple of takes here. One, it sounds like you are using a cordless drill as opposed to a rotary hammer. I make a living with these things. I have a 24v FireStorm cordless hammerdrill, which will get me only about 6 - 1/4" holes in concrete, which is far easier to drill than any rock that's worth climbing. I also have a 24v Bosch, that would drill 1/4" holes all day if I brought it to work. The cordless hammerdrill is simply not the right tool for route installations. If you try to rig one with the gel pack, you'll probably burn it and your rope up. |
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Dear Mr. Angry, allow me to better clarify my take. Sandstone, especially the desert, is typically the realm of either trad leads or ground-up bolted slabs. A power drill is, by my earlier take, not the correct application. At least here in the west. An exception would be Red Rock Canyon O.S. in the Springs. Some of those are ground-ups, but if they all were there would be about 50% fewer routes than now; but the nature of the routes would basically be the same. My bolting experience is mostly hard stone at areas that were always more or less ignored by our ancestors. |
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I have been putting up routes for many years using a 24 volt Bosch Bulldog cordless Rotohammer that I have adapted to run on 2 12-volt motorcycle batteries. It sounds like you found some good info on the recommended website. It is quite easy to make this adjustment to your drill, and the results are great: I get about 30- 3/8" bolts placed in basalt, from a full charge; and the weight of the battery pack is in my backpack instead of on the drill. |
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elmo mecsko wrote:Avery said: "Power bolting leads to overall less-thought in the bolting process"Elmo, I think you neglected to include the earlier part of my sentence "why I personally think" and capitalized the 'P' in power -- so this isn't really a quote of what was said, nor in the correct context. The key word I used is overall. I didn't say there weren't folks who setup well thought out routes. This is my *opinion*. |
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Pussy. |
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Abbey wrote:Pussy. Ever wonder why access is the issue we all face? It's the power drill. Hand drilling is a wonderful self limiting device. Makes you stronger and keeps the land mangers off our backs. Get balls, a good rubber handle, some hooks and go.Chit, I know (actually learned how to climb from) trads who say hooks are cheating...call it what you want (cheating) just don't call it "trad" is what they say... Actually, the problem is a group of climbers making a tempest out of a teapot over "how a hole was done"...even Bachar use a Bulldog, remember? A hole is a hole is a hole, in the "land manager" perspective...think it out. "Fixed" anchor bans don't discriminate on how the hole was done... Yall trads (cough, cough) are missing the "big hole" though...give me an hour or so with a d11 single shank and a full tank and I'll make a bigger hole than all the power drill sporto holes combined...as well as every single 'stance drilled' and hooked hole. Let my people climb... |
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12 volt - 7.0 amp hours lead acid gel cells wired in series work the best. Use removable wires so you can charge the batteries individually. Two batteries and charger can be had for about $70 at a battery supply store and will get you 30 - 3/8" x 3" holes in granite. The lower rated cells like the 5.0 amp hour versions save a little weight, but don't seem to last very long or drill nearly as many holes as expected. You will also have to rig your drill to plug into the batteries. The batteries weigh about 12 lbs. and are best carried in a back or fanny pack. |
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weak |
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Ethical differences aside, power drilling is the way to go (unless doing a small amount of bolts in anything but the softest of rock), and the best power is from, as Tzilla mentions, 12v lead-acid (or lead-calcium) batteries: The 5.0 amp and 7.0 amp are both suitable, with the 7.0 amp providing even more firepower - up to 60+ holes in granite. There are many online suppliers with power-sonic.com and www.towerhobbies.com being two very reputable sources. One thing to think about is that power drilling can make replacing old, dangerous bolts much easier than hand drilling, and enable one to replace large numbers of bolts in a day. Keep in mind the use of power drills is illegal in wilderness, but even in Joshua Tree National Park a special use permit is sometimes given to enable bolt replacement with a power drill (in non-wilderness areas of the Park). Lastly, here are some links to battery recycling sites - earth911.org batterycouncil.org |