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Route claiming help!

Original Post
Matt Krenik · · Huntington Beach, California · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 45

I went out to my local desert and found some boulders near the camp site. Climbing for a bit I made about 15 routes on all sorts of different boulders in the area. There was no chalk in the area and this area is not listed on this website as a bouldering area. Is there a way to post the area on here as it is a climbing spot just like any other one ? I took lots of pictures and named the routes that I linked together.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

You can add area or routes to pretty much anywhere here. I guess there may be some restrictions and generally there are mods for different locations.

Remember just because they aren't listed on this site or anywhere else doesn't mean you are the first person to ever climb it.

I have cleaned moss off more than one boulder and some of them i am pretty sure have been climbed before just not for a very long time.

Joe L 82 · · PA · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 735

pretty much this ^

It is easy to create an area and put up routes. They have probably been climbed before but if they are on public land and there is no documentation it has to start somewhere right? so why not you?

Post it up, if some person finds and it says "hey, I climbed those like 15 years ago" they can easily message you or whatever and you can edit the info.

for these off the radar hole in the wall places it's no biggie IMO

just my 2cents

Taylor Currier · · South Lake Tahoe, CA · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 45

share the good news! someone will be stoked on it.

Red · · Tacoma, Toyota · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 1,625

So where is this area?

Jennifer Schonert · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 243

Hi,

My husband, our son and I, along with about 50 friends are all Ridgecrest locals all have been climbing the Boulders at Wagon Wheel for years. Some of our friends have been climbing for decades. Seeing your photos of your "FA's" here on rocks we have all climbed has prompted this message. There will be photos on the way. Those rock have been climbed before. And there is information out there. I will start posting established routes to help others find climbs in this beautiful area.

What you have posted here are NOT first ascents. More than 1,000 problems have been done in Wagon Wheel as of 1992 alone (Southern Sierra Rock Climbing Domelands pp. 148). Only a few have been pictured in this book.

I see you and your father are both from Huntington Beach. When one arrives at any new area (even an area where one has climbed before), caution must be taken before one starts claiming FA'S). Locals must be contacted, because one does not know if those boulders are untouched, let alone unnamed. Any boulder that has been climbed successfully prior to your top out guarantees that you do not have a first ascent, whether or not anyone has published this information. Again, this is why talking to locals is extremely important, as is doing extensive research on the area you are "putting up new routes on".

And for those who gave you advice in the forum that even if a route was climbed 15 yrs ago, one can still claim an FA without trying to find out more info: It is against the whole widely accepted principals and ethics of the climbing community to assume one can claim an FA just because they cannot find data (look harder). Your post in that forum doesn't name the area you are putting up, so people who have climbed here wouldn't find it right away.

Please do the research. It is a pain in the butt, I know, but these photos elicited much frustration in myself, because I personally know so many climbers (and am one) who is out there regularly. We have found boulders which are possible FA's, but have not claimed them and will not, until we are sure.

It doesn't matter if those boulders have been climbed 30, 40, or even 50 years ago. If they have been climbed before, one cannot claim a FA. It is highly disrespectful to assume the unposted climbs do not matter. Go to Yosemite and try what you have done here. It may not seem like it, but I am being helpful.

We have projects currently going on here and it is within our right to not post the climb until finished.

Here are a few names of locals to get you started, in case you would like to find more info. (Yes, I understand this is intimidating):

1. Randle Dewees (An amazing climber/route developer who knows everything about Wagon Wheel - and he is on Mountain Project)
2. Mike Derkey
3. Jeff Gicklhorn
4. Myself, Jennifer Schonert
2. My husband, David Schonert
3. Tom Roseman

A good rule of thumb is: If you cannot find anyone who has climbed in an area, what is usually done is to leave the FA blank and note in your description that most likely others have climbed this before.

By reaching out, researching, and respecting that this is not a new area, you will be better equipped to claim an FA...there are some to be had.

~ Jennifer

mustardtiger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 20

Jennifer I think all you had to do was say these boulders have been climbed before and you didn't get an FA.

I was in the same boat as him and I still am. I moved to an area and found a really good climbing area. There was some bolted routes but there was only a handful of boulder problems listed that I could find online. I have put a lot of work into finding new boulders and new problems. Someone along the line has more then likely climbed them before. When this area is ready to go I will put up all my problems and claim them as an FA until someone comes along and claims to have sent these problems before. I am doing it because I am proud of all the hard work I put into the area and also so the next guy doesn't have to hike around aimlessly for months before finding a good boulder.

It seems to me like this guy came across an area that isn't well known and you and your friends wanted to keep it low key. Now that someone else is coming along and claiming a FA you want to make it clear that there was already people climbing there.

I think you should talk to the op and figure out what problems you guys established and which ones he established.

SDY · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 10
Jennifer Schonert wrote:Any boulder that has been climbed successfully prior to your top out guarantees that you do not have a first ascent, whether or not anyone has published this information.
You really think you (or any one else in recent history) are the first person in human history to clamber on top of those rocks?

Jennifer Schonert wrote:It is highly disrespectful to assume the unposted climbs do not matter.
I never saw where he did that.

You come off as a pretentious jerk.
The silly little rocks you climbed on top of are extremely unimportant in this world.

Be a little nicer.
Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175

This thread is solid gold.

Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175
mountainproject.com/v/11003…

LOL!

This stuff is SERIOUS DAWG!

Hey guys! What would we do, if we had actual problems?!?
Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175

WE CLAIMBED THAT PEBBLE FURST!!!1

mustardtiger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 20

Way to break the mold.

Red · · Tacoma, Toyota · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 1,625
chris tregge · · Madison WI · Joined May 2007 · Points: 11,036
Jennifer Schonert wrote:but these photos elicited much frustration in myself
How come?

I think it's great that Matt started putting up problems from this area on mountainproject. I doubt I'll ever visit, but if I do at least some problems will be on here. If the FA info isn't correct, just post the correct FA as a comment under the problem and he can fix it. Happens all the time, no big deal.
Michael Brady · · Wenatchee, WA · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 1,316
J Marsella wrote:WAIT-- the solution is... post the route, leave the FA field as UNKNOWN and request FA information [as Joe L mentioned above, and as JS ignored / misread and thought he was condoning that the OP claim FA]...? If folks care enough to correct you on the names, grades, and FA info of the routes you post, the "IMPROVE THIS PAGE" option is available from them. Alternately, ask JS for the info-- seems like she cares enough to have it NO NO TOO EASY
Obviously, the appropriate and easy solution. :)

Am I understanding this correctly...he lives in HB and is driving to Wagon Wheel? Weird. Wagon Wheel is cool, but not that cool. There are a couple good bouldering areas that are much closer like The Tram, Black Mtn., Woodson, Josh, Stoney Point, Pine Mtn, Horse Flats......
Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175
Chris treggE wrote: How come? I think it's great that Matt started putting up problems from this area on mountainproject. I doubt I'll ever visit, but if I do at least some problems will be on here. If the FA info isn't correct, just post the correct FA as a comment under the problem and he can fix it. Happens all the time, no big deal.
No Chris!

Validate my rage!!! Do not provide reasonable solutions!

All kidding aside, perhaps that's the real reason people get fired up about this stuff? They're really mad that their "locals only" climbing spot is getting some spotlight, so MOAR people might show up?
mustardtiger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 20

BINGO^^

Michael Brady · · Wenatchee, WA · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 1,316
Adam Burch wrote: All kidding aside, perhaps that's the real reason people get fired up about this stuff? They're really mad that their "locals only" climbing spot is getting some spotlight, so MOAR people might show up?
It would be funny to see someone get protective of Wagon Wheel, as if it is going to blow up. Not to say there aren't quality lines out there but come on....
Greg Barnes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,060

Classic!

The real trick at Wagon Wheels is not getting run down by the motorcycles and ORVs…or keeping sand out of your eyes when the wind really starts ripping (bye-bye crashpad!).

If you want to park a huge motorhome in a circle in the desert with a bunch of your friends, rip around on motorcycles, AND boulder, this is the perfect place for you.

Harry Netzer · · Roxbury, CT · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 145

Jennifer's post doesn't deserve the stream of derision in this thread. Do you guys often get mad when a woman acts "uppity"? I'm with her, OP comes off as a douche claiming FA's on his V4's when really he has no idea.

Anson Call · · Reno, NV · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 45

My 2 cents: If you climb an obscure boulder in the middle of nowhere, and you actually care about claiming the FA, you should make a serious effort to publicly document the problem. aka post it up on MP or some other website.

Otherwise, we'd all spend more time scrambling for FA info than actually climbing.

My opinion when it comes to boulders, especially obscure, easy problems: pic, topo, blog post, or something or it didn't happen. When there's no bolt line, no rap anchor, no chalk, etc., there's really no way of knowing if a problem has ever been done unless someone speaks up about it. If you think about it, there's really nothing that makes a problem a problem, other than a combination of some random holds, an FA and a name. Especially obscure V1-4 scrambles like the ones Jennifer is so worked up about.

Seems like a douche move to wait until someone else does all the painstaking work of actually documenting the problem with a name, grade, FA, and pic or topo, then swoop in and claim the FA. Yeah, technically Jenn may have scrambled up that boulder first, but Matt is the one who actually made that problem real for the rest of us.

Thanks, Matt.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Bouldering
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