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Rope through hangers.

Original Post
Ian Stewart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 155

I've always just assumed that most people have the opinion that you shouldn't run rope/fabric directly through hangers. However, today I ended up on a random youtube video journey and ended up watching this clip that, as far as I can tell, shows Tommy Caldwell belaying Kevin Jorgeson directly off an anchor that is simply made from a rope tied directly through the hangers.

youtube.com/watch?v=Y0YUseO…

Am I missing something here? Are some hangers "rope friendly"? If so, what benefits might be had from using this method?

Rope anchor through hangers.

Finn The Human · · The Land of Ooo · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 106

There are in fact rope friendly hangers, as seen here: metoliusclimbing.com/rap_ha…

Whether or not that is what he is using... no clue.

Brian in SLC · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 21,711

Yeah, looks like an old piece of static line. Certainly not their lead rope.

BASE99999 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 0

Exactly. It is a fixed anchor using older rope.

Pretty lame video for Black Diamond to use. Just because it has Tommy C in it doesn't make it good or correct.

Being lazy and using old fixed stuff as your anchor.

Setting up the ATC Guide at your knees is a pain in the ass. Set it up at chest level for easy use.

What the h*** is Tommy showing people by letting go of the brake hand? !?! Dumb & dangerous.

coloradotomontana Erley · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 75
BASE1361 wrote:Exactly. It is a fixed anchor using older rope. Pretty lame video for Black Diamond to use. Just because it has Tommy C in it doesn't make it good or correct. Being lazy and using old fixed stuff as your anchor. Setting up the ATC Guide at your knees is a pain in the ass. Set it up at chest level for easy use. What the h*** is Tommy showing people by letting go of the brake hand? !?! Dumb & dangerous.
Yea ... who would ever let go of the break hand on a hands-free device? Has there ever been a case of a plaquete letting rope through (slipping) in guide mode? That rope looks pretty decent, too.
smassey · · CO · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 200

As one who uses an ATC Guide almost every day, I would agree that he should have it higher for comfort's sake, but whatever. OMG - taking your hand off the device??? That's the whole point of the plaquette-type devices. What may young, impressionable climbers infer from Mr T taking his hand off the belay? Anything they choose, but namely: learn the applications, and mis-applications, of whatever gear you choose to use.

JPVallone · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 195
Pat Erley wrote: Yea ... who would ever let go of the break hand on a hands-free device? .
It's not a hands free device though, It requires your hands to operate, so I don't know where people get the term hands free from?
bergbryce · · California · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 145
BASE1361 wrote:What the h*** is Tommy showing people by letting go of the brake hand? !?! Dumb & dangerous.
Because it's an ATC setup in autoblock mode. That's what that particular device is for. You can belay "standard" off your harness, or in autoblock mode, which is what he is doing here. The reason he removes his hand is to display the autoblock function. He even says something like "aahhh, he can fall, and it automatically locks!" or something like that.

There is nothing wrong with what's being done in this video.
As for the rope on hangers.... if you don't like the in-situ anchor, don't use it.
coloradotomontana Erley · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 75
JPVallone wrote: It's not a hands free device though, It requires your hands to operate, so I don't know where people get the term hands free from?
Not sure, probably because you dont need a break hand on.
Robert Buswold · · Northglenn, CO · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 80

I have seen a sort-of rope friendly hangar. At the rap anchors for Wind Tower in Eldo there is a glue-in eye bolt, and another bolt with a very fat hanger that is round enough to put a rope through, but essential just looks like a normal bolt hanger.

BASE99999 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 0

Straight from Black Diamond so stick it.

"Although belaying is relatively simple, it requires
complete attention and commitment. The belayer is
responsible for catching the climber’s fall and there is no
margin for error. Whether you are belaying or rappelling,
control of the rope is regulated by your brake hand. Your
brake hand must never leave the rope at any time."

"Be certain you have loaded the device
correctly. If loaded incorrectly, the device will not lock."

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/uploads/black-diamond/files/MM5853_F_Belay_devicesWEB.pdf

No one has ever loaded a belay device wrong now have they. Even with a diagram on the side of the unit.

Evan Sanders · · Westminster, CO · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 140
BASE1361 wrote:Straight from Black Diamond so stick it. "Although belaying is relatively simple, it requires complete attention and commitment. The belayer is responsible for catching the climber’s fall and there is no margin for error. Whether you are belaying or rappelling, control of the rope is regulated by your brake hand. Your brake hand must never leave the rope at any time." "Be certain you have loaded the device correctly. If loaded incorrectly, the device will not lock." blackdiamondequipment.com/u… No one has ever loaded a belay device wrong now have they. Even with a diagram on the side of the unit.
And you must never operate heavy machinery while drunk either. What's your point?
BASE99999 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 0
Evan Sanders wrote: And you must never operate heavy machinery while drunk either. What's your point?
Don't take your brake hand off the rope.
Brice Harris · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 0

Have you ever actually belayed from above BASE? I find it hard to believe anyone who has used the guide in guide mode would question its functionality.

The whole point is that you can be doing other important tasks while your second is climbing. IE - Hauling, setting up for the change over, drinking beer, etc...

Phil Lauffen · · Innsbruck, AT · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 3,098
BASE1361 wrote:Straight from Black Diamond so stick it. "Although belaying is relatively simple, it requires complete attention and commitment. The belayer is responsible for catching the climber’s fall and there is no margin for error. Whether you are belaying or rappelling, control of the rope is regulated by your brake hand. Your brake hand must never leave the rope at any time." "Be certain you have loaded the device correctly. If loaded incorrectly, the device will not lock." blackdiamondequipment.com/u… No one has ever loaded a belay device wrong now have they. Even with a diagram on the side of the unit.
Yes. The reason for this disclaimer is fear of litigation. It releases them from culpability. It is completely fine to take your hand off your guide.
wankel7 · · Indiana · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 10
BASE1361 wrote: Don't take your brake hand off the rope.
Dont let reality stand in the way of a good rant BASE1361!
Copperhead · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 0
BASE1361 wrote: Don't take your brake hand off the rope.
You'll be entertaining on the forums. Please don't learn anything about what you are talking about, read lots of web material, and offer opinions on everything.
Marathon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 275
BASE1361 wrote:Straight from Black Diamond so stick it. "Although belaying is relatively simple, it requires complete attention and commitment. The belayer is responsible for catching the climber’s fall and there is no margin for error. Whether you are belaying or rappelling, control of the rope is regulated by your brake hand. Your brake hand must never leave the rope at any time." "Be certain you have loaded the device correctly. If loaded incorrectly, the device will not lock." blackdiamondequipment.com/u… No one has ever loaded a belay device wrong now have they. Even with a diagram on the side of the unit.
Tool!
dlangdon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 5

sorry to vary from the apparent rant, but what about this for soft goods through an anchor?

two bolt anchor

I realize the sling is girth hitched through a ring anchor, so there isn't an edge to rub on. An acceptable practice? What about on a traditional bolted anchor with no ring? Is the fear of cutting through the webbing too great?

cellige · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 0

I'm with base on this one. There are not so difficult ways to block the functionality of an autoblock, such as the device getting pinched on the rock. If it is not free to move it won't lock. Even if the climbers side of the rope were to hang up on a horn or something that is a bit sideways from the device, it won't lock.

Saying an autoblock is hands free doesn't seem to different from saying a grigri is hands free, each have about the same chance of not locking as far as I can see.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

Doesn't anybody except old traddies still use 1 inch tubular web material for anchors like this? Strong and pretty tough stuff. Most know to change it out when it looks faded from the sun.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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