Mountain Project Logo

Respecting closures and your fellow climbers.

Original Post
cdec · · SLC, UT · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 654
Climbing feet from the closed sign
We forgot about the seasonal closure for wintering animals that is in effect during the winter months ending 4/1. Lots of these pretty, new, bright yellow CLOSED signs along the road. Didn't get to climb. Did get to witness incredible acts of selfishness and stupidity. There were no less than 4 parties on the Dry Wall and Roadside crag. These two took the cake!

Please respect closures and your fellow climbers. We lose access because of this kind of behavior.

Go!
Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

Carl, did you help them read the sign???

grog m · · Saltlakecity · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 70

Go? Why didn't you say something then and there?

It's not your job to enforce, but as a climbing steward it is your job to educate. Start a conversation:

Hey, my name is cdec what is your name?
The expectation here is that you don't climb from dates A to B because of the wildlife. Fragile egosystem blah blah
Why weren't you meeting this expectation? (gives them the chance to talk)

Their fragile climbing egos will be hurt and I wouldn't expect them to leave. HOWEVER, I would bet 9/10 people wouldn't return at a later time "because of that one guy who called us out for the wildlife closures"

grog m · · Saltlakecity · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 70

Addendum: It takes balls and is a scary thing to do for sure. But you gotta keep your cool and if they get mad or confrontational just leave.

cdec · · SLC, UT · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 654

Actually this brings up a very interesting point. I am long time climber, guide service owner, AMGA and SLCA member and a veteran instructor of last seasons Rock Project. I am fully aware of The Pact and being an "up Stander" not a "bystander".
This morning I was feeling exceptionally non-confrontational. There was no scenario that I could work out where me pointing out these signs would have went well. Perhaps I'm wrong but being the climbing police, in any capacity, wasn't for me this morning.

In the past I have limited my intervention only to situations that where grossly unsafe. Admittedly I have a tough time with etiquette issues like music, group size and sieging routes.
I climb, in part, to get away from conversation and debate not invite it. I guess though that to protect that which I love I need to expand my comfort zone.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Who is the land manager? I know that getting them involved could cause total, permanent closures, so I guess I'm just curious.

cdec · · SLC, UT · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 654

State land. Division of Natural resources is probably responsible for managing the wildlife and the closure.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

Better pictures help the community get the shame train going, doubtful these turds will own up to it.

J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50

Perhaps the two are exclusive?

I just wrote a real good rant, then erased it, cause fuck it, you all have kids, and it's only funny if you don't.

Nathan Self · · Louisiana · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 90

That's pretty crappy, but I'd love to see videos of you informing them. Watch your back!

grog m · · Saltlakecity · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 70

The "Go" part just bothers me. Perhaps I don't understand what you meant there.

If YOU aren't going to do something about it why expect that anybody else would? You're the super qualified person....

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
grog m wrote:The "Go" part just bothers me. Perhaps I don't understand what you meant there. If YOU aren't going to do something about it why expect that anybody else would? You're the super qualified person....
I think "go" means "start the conversation," not "go there and take care of this for me." My interpretation, anyway.
cdec · · SLC, UT · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 654

^^^^
Exactly.

Josh Janes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2001 · Points: 9,954

Climbers tattling on other climbers on the internet when they could have said something right then and there? Lame and lacking integrity.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Josh Janes wrote:Climbers tattling on other climbers on the internet when they could have said something right then and there? Lame and lacking integrity.
I wouldnt go that far but... if I had decided to drive away and not climb for the day I would have either said something and/or taken better pics of the vehicle and people. Thats just me, especially at a complete choss pile like Echo that really nobody would miss if it fell down tomorrow.
Josh Janes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2001 · Points: 9,954

Yeah, I'm not saying cdec is a bad guy. But he did ask for feedback. So if you don't really think the violation is that big of a deal, I have no problems with that - I suspect there are a lot of closures out there that are pretty unnecessary. But if you're actually concerned that raptors will be harmed or that climbing will get shut down, you should say something rather than just letting the activity continue.

On the other hand, if you don't want to have a confrontation, that's your prerogative... I just think posting about it online after the fact is pretty lame.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Josh Janes wrote:If you don't really think the violation is that big of a deal, I have no problems with that. I suspect there are a lot of closures out there that are pretty unnecessary. But if you're actually concerned that raptors will be harmed or that climbing will get shut down, you should say something rather than just letting the activity continue. On the other hand, if you don't want to have a confrontation, that's your prerogative... I just think posting about it online after the fact is pretty lame.
Jesus fucking christ I did not say that, chill a bit dude. Calling him lame and lacking integrity was a bit over the top and approaching jerk status. Do you spend your days calling everyone at the crag out on what they are doing wrong? I know I dont.
Jim Garrett · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0

I suppose someone should tell the ice climbers that they are violating the winter wildlife closure. I was planning on taking my portable hot tub up to the Choss Cave this weekend, but I guess that will get me in trouble.

Kevin Chuba · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 135

I just want to know where are their helmets? Obviously not thinking clearly. Good thread...We can all learn from other climbers mistakes. These two individuals are being jerks and should respect the posted signage!

cdec · · SLC, UT · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 654

Why is it "lame" or "tattling"?
I didn't feel like confronting people that obviously didn't give a shit. Instead I very deliberately posted it on the web where everyone, even the offenders, can see it. Though only they know who they are.

By doing so two important things are accomplished on a broader scale than by simply approaching these two.
Closures are being discussed.
What to do when you see something like this happen is being discussed.

The quality of the climbing or the validity of the closure isn't the issue here. Personally I don't think this area which is adjacent to I-80 and one of the countries busiest rail lines has seen any "wintering wildlife" in quite some time. But the DNR saw fit to take measures to protect Elk and Deer. Additionally, some think the climbing is worth it. So much so they violated the closure.
The issue is RESPECTING CLOSURES, no matter what.

Collin Holt · · Dallas, TX · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 40
Josh Janes wrote:Yeah, I'm not saying cdec is a bad guy. But he did ask for feedback. So if you don't really think the violation is that big of a deal, I have no problems with that - I suspect there are a lot of closures out there that are pretty unnecessary. But if you're actually concerned that raptors will be harmed or that climbing will get shut down, you should say something rather than just letting the activity continue. On the other hand, if you don't want to have a confrontation, that's your prerogative... I just think posting about it online after the fact is pretty lame.
Josh, you are way out of line.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northern Utah & Idaho
Post a Reply to "Respecting closures and your fellow climbers. "

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.