Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
Red Rock Rope Advice
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
Page 1 of 1.  
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
Dec 7, 2012
Vegas the Dog
Just scored a 200 gift certificate to Sterling Ropes and thinking about new rope(s).

I have a bunch of ropes including a brand new 9.8 70m sterling evolution (wish I won the gift last week), an 80m 9.8 evolution that I rarely use, and a 7mm tag line. Also have a thick rope that I use for jugging/hauling/TR. I am thinking about selling my almost new 80m 9.8 and getting something thinner.

My question is whether I should think about getting a set of half ropes and ditch the tag line, or a nice thin 9.4 80m and charge some bigger routes with that, I am really lazy and hate to bring my regular rope and a second for rapping, I will bring less gear if my partner is down to go lighter. I will almost always choose a downclimb/walkoff over big raps.
Figured I would throw it out there, as I have little experience with half ropes. Do folks love them in Red Rocks, how much could I get away with carrying an 80m line and nothing else?
JF1
From Las Vegas
Joined Jan 16, 2011
293 points
Dec 7, 2012
Me at the good rest on Doggie Do
All depends on which routes you want to get on. The Nightcrawler raps with a single 80 I am told (part of why I bought mine). Conversely, when Xavier and I were on The Warrior, bringing his twins was extremely advantageous. All depends on the route and your personal preference. The advantages of each system, from a systems-based standpoint, has been discussed ad infinitum elsewhere. As it relates to Red Rock, look at the guidebook and the routes you want to climb. That should give you a good picture as to which way to go. Weston L
From Summerlin, NV
Joined Mar 14, 2010
709 points
Dec 7, 2012
South of Windy Peak
I enjoy having a rope that's certified for both half and twin rope technique; I'm currently using PMI Verglass 8.1mm x 60m. I see that Sterling has the Fusion 7.8mm. When used as a pair of twin ropes, it's like using the same material as a 11mm rope or more - lots of safety there and yet the pair of skinny ropes run much smoother than a fat one.

I always question carrying a tag line only used for rappel - why not bring a second rope that can be part of the lead system as well? And if I get on a wandering pitch I'll switch over to half rope technique to protect traverses or reduce rope drag. I like that versatility.

That said, you're not going to get a set of twin ropes for the value of your $200 certificate.

Like lots of people, I have several ropes for different scenarios. But I'm super happy having the half/twin option at Red Rock.
John Hegyes
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 2, 2002
4,295 points
Dec 7, 2012
Chips and Salsa
Go with half ropes for everything. Then watch as the sportos gawk and ask you what your using.

On a serious note. Half ropes rocked out there. Good for wandering pitches and nice easy raps.
Tom Lausch
From Madison WI
Joined Apr 10, 2012
215 points
Dec 7, 2012
Vegas the Dog
Thanks for the ideas,
I know I wont' get twins for 200, but I might do some MP trading, or throw in a little extra cash.
JF1
From Las Vegas
Joined Jan 16, 2011
293 points
Dec 8, 2012
You can get off 95% of every trade route in Red Rock with a 70m line. I had an 80m but ditched it because the only wall you need it for is the Black Velvet wall- and that wall is so clean, a trail line is no biggie.

Go with a 70m 9.4mm Ion2- its a sweet line, lightweight, and will get you off just about everything in the park with one rope.

If you get an 80m, get a Nano- weight really starts to matter with a rope that long. Plus, I think the Nano is rated as a half rope as well- but I could be wrong.
John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 1, 2004
2,395 points
Dec 8, 2012
South of Windy Peak
I'd feel pretty exposed if I was leading 80m out a skinny single. In a fall you'd be going for a ride with all that stretch. John Hegyes
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 2, 2002
4,295 points
Dec 8, 2012
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008
John Hegyes wrote:
I'd feel pretty exposed if I was leading 80m out a skinny single. In a fall you'd be going for a ride with all that stretch.

I'm old. 10.2 is my 'skinny' rope yet. 70 M is my longest rope to date. Trust the thicker ropes so much better, being fat and all.
Woodchuck ATC
Joined Nov 29, 2007
3,091 points
Dec 8, 2012
Vegas the Dog
I've climbed with a 9.2 nano 80m before, awesome soft catches and super light, but terrible for the second with all the stretch.
I was looking at that 9.4, think it might be the business.
JF1
From Las Vegas
Joined Jan 16, 2011
293 points
Administrator
Dec 8, 2012
El Chorro
FWIW, I pretty much always use half ropes on long routes. Whether I'm rapping or not, it's nice to know that I have the option to fix and bail from 400 feet up and also do 60 m raps in case of bad weather, etc.

I see taking thin halves as an opportunity to leave some of my long slings behind, so the added weight is minimal. Makes splitting up the gear easier as well. Being able to clip them as twins is useful too, so it's worth a bit of extra money to get ropes that are rated for that.

Like someone else pointed out, it doesn't make sense to carry a static line if you're not hauling. And i can't imagine having an 80m rope on a multipitch, or on the approach.
Ryan Williams
From London (sort of)
Joined May 10, 2009
1,468 points
Dec 8, 2012
Chillin' at City of Rocks
I typically use doubles as well. It is nice to have two ropes for wandering routes, and I do like knowing I can always get down no matter what. Princess Mia
From Vail
Joined May 22, 2006
427 points
Dec 8, 2012
The problem with doubles in Red Rock is that theres alot of rope there to get caught on stuff. Climbed on doubles for a long time here, wouldnt go back for the world- especially since there's just no need for most routes here. Rope of choice is 70m 9.4 Ion2 for sure, although I do love the Nano as well. John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 1, 2004
2,395 points
Dec 8, 2012
Adam,

I got two 70's I switch out routinely. I have a cheap 70m 9.8/9 for general abuse and a mammut infinity 9.5 for longer approaches/routes.

Also, I really like the 8.1 pmi's that can be used as half/twins. Great set of ropes and you can use them for tag lines once ya abused them enough.
Rob Fielding
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined May 8, 2011
240 points
Dec 9, 2012
Dow Williams, 2011
Do I think you should all go out and buy an 80m rope? Yes....it is good for the industry. Reinventing things you mostly do not need is the salvation of the outdoor equipment industry which I support and am a part of. Harnesses, shoes, waterproofing, down, protection and yes length of ropes.

The irony of carrying an 80m rope? A pet peeve of mine is relatively inexperienced folks climbing 5.10 and below who want me to carry their stuff on their lead because the extra weight might affect their performance. Trust me, at that grade level, the weight on your harness has nothing to do with it. If you lead 5.12 and up, then I will carry your water and shoes for you. How does this relate to an 80m rope? When I am leading a sustained (relative) long pitch, I am ready for a breather at 230'. I was probably ready at 180'. Why do you want to carry an additional 10 meters of rope on lead? My 70m already is 9.4mm. An 80m rope weighs more, not just on approach, but on lead. If the route varies direction at all, a standard at Red Rock, Zion and Moab towers...then rope drag also becomes a huge issue. If the grade is 5.9 or less or the pitch is not sustained...again, a standard in these areas, then rope drag becomes a huge issue as the surface area of the rope dragging across rock becomes substantial.

Very few if any new established routes anywhere I climb have been gauged for an 80m rope advantage. I really think an 80m is just an excuse to go out and spend some more dough on gear, which again, I totally support you do.

As far as folks afraid of doubles or simply have not learned their tremendous advantage on big routes, I tire of educating on that point. I do wish everyone would at least understand the difference between a double and twin and the different advantages of each system and how we incorporate them into different disciplines for different reasons...but again, ask your experienced climbing friends to explain it to you.
Dow Williams
From St. George, Utah; Canmore, AB
Joined Mar 13, 2006
186 points


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 1.  
Beyond the Guidebook:
The Definitive Climbing Resource
Inspiration & Motivation
to Fuel Your Run
Next Generation Mountain
Bike Trail Maps
Backcountry, Sidecountry
& Secret Stashes
Better Data. Better Tools.
Better Hikes!