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By scott cooney
From La Casa Taco
Feb 7, 2013
11th hour of the Sundial

lately I've been seeing the local climbs getting the crap drilled out of them at the good stances, other than a failure to get good info out to the climbing community why are people degrading the ice quality by drilling over and over again rather than going for the easy rebore? after all screw strength is dependant on ice quality and how quality do you really feel ice is when you have 15 holes in a 10 inch diameter? Is this just a local problem with SLC having quick access easy climbs (that have to be lead) or is it going on across the country/globe? I posted on my blog yesterday about the issue and had some friends give me more beta on what they are seeing on other climbs, being the same thing, and no I'm not promoting my blog rather looking for the convo on why climbers aren't reboring, or teaching to rebore when needed. if you want the best test data on rebores I do have it linked in the write up thealpinehack.wordpress.com/2013/02/06/why-arent-we-reboring>>>

thanks in advance for any decent replies, and to the mud slingers out there have at it it is only the net after all


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By Kevin Connolly
From CO
Feb 7, 2013

Keep spraying about ice conditions on the internet and the holes will fill themselves in, i promise.


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By frankstoneline
Feb 7, 2013

I thought all you guys went to canada for pissing and moaning season like 2 months ago?


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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Feb 7, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on

The climbing was going well, the ice soft and fat.
Every stick was solid, every foot was bomber.
He got to the first belay, and in his harness he sat.
As he brought his follower up though, his mood turned somber.

He looked down at his feet, and he was quite unpleased,
To the lad's horror, the ice had turned to swiss-cheese!!!


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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Feb 8, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on

poetry bump...


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By scott cooney
From La Casa Taco
Feb 8, 2013
11th hour of the Sundial

the poem did give me a laugh Ben, thanks


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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Feb 8, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on

Woo. I thought it was rather clever.


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By robrobrobrob
Feb 8, 2013

I love the poetry, but I have a question.

Nice test on the 10kn rebore pull out... but while it's a good piece of data to be had, In my opinion that doesn't answer enough questions to just start trusting rebored screws outright.

1. I'd like to see rebores tested 1, 3, 5 hours, and 1, 2, 5 days out from the first drill.

2. How about multiple rebores, if it's the 15th time that hole has been used is it still good? ( My gut on this is that the teeth and screws will eventually ream out the hole... )

3. How about different brands of screws, how do they compare?

Having that data will at least give the climber some more information when approaching a drilled out stance. Now.. who wants to write the grant? :)


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By scott cooney
From La Casa Taco
Feb 8, 2013
11th hour of the Sundial

all are great points Rob, and some of the numbers your asking for are in the full Strike Rescue report you just have to read through all the boring mumbo jumbo. now I know it seems like I advocate for rebores, which is a failure on my part as to what I'm really getting at here. big issue I have is everyone drilling fresh bores within an inch of a previous bore, once this is done neither the fresh bore or a rebore will really be trustworthy in that immediate section of ice. the solution is teaching good practice of putting the screw elsewhere. if you really have to drill right next to an existing bore then rebore it, if you dont want to rebore drill elsewhere. I'm finding this the close quaters boring on easier climbs so I suspect it's more gumbies doing it but would really like to know if other climbers are seeing the same thing elsewhere? the climb I'm about to head to right now, I garantee at one of the ledges I'll find a spot with 6 bores from yesterday that I can cover all at the same time with my hand.


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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Feb 8, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on

Despite how boring this discussion is...I was wondering:

What does the data show with how strong screws in existing holes are? I would imagine it can't be nearly as strong as a freshly placed screw.

I tried to click the link above and it wasn't working for me.


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By Baumer
From Boulder, CO
Feb 8, 2013
Easy Lieback

scott cooney wrote:
all the boring mumbo jumbo.


When you say "boring," is the pun intended?


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By Adam Burch
From San Dieger
Feb 8, 2013
you local?

I think I placed 3 or 4 screws in old holes on the long pitch I climbed last.

I'd rather them not be fresh and slightly filling back in from the agua, very easy start, but still "drill" out because they've narrowed from the drip the night(s) before. That's how these were, and I was glad to have them. Only downside is you can't judge the ice by the core that comes out.

Side question: am I the only one that cringes anytime someone uses the phrase "shit show"? Came up a couple times the last time I was on ice, reminded me.


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By scott cooney
From La Casa Taco
Feb 9, 2013
11th hour of the Sundial

Adam Burch wrote:
Side question: am I the only one that cringes anytime someone uses the phrase "shit show"? Came up a couple times the last time I was on ice, reminded me.


nope, thats exactly why I started this thread, no better way to descibe what I'm seeing and I just really question why we aren't teaching better tatics.... and your rebore description is imo the best placement you can ever get, wish they were all like that....


Ben, here's the page where the report is housed, its adobe so don't know if that the issue for you strikerescue.com/research its the ice anchor report, and shows that placing in an existing hole "can" be just as strong if not stronger than a fresh bore, but there are a lot of environmental issues that can compromise them, and a lot of unproven theorys out there. with all the dynamic drops they did using 9-13cm rebored screws the weakest was a little over 3kn blow out and the strongest over 22kn, the weakest was in bad ice so go figure and the strongest was rebored left over night and drop tested the following day. but the average was well into double digit KN strengths and considering they used a lot of 9/10cm screws which most of us would only consider aid pieces I'll let you take from that what you'd like.

and for Baumer, glad you caught that :-)


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