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re slinging c4(old style stem)
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By jim whitney
May 22, 2012
Pepsi Center
I have decided to re sling my old cam c4s which are probably 13-14 years old. The original webbing was rated at 11 kN in a straight configuration. the pictured webbing has a rating of 22 kN but will be in a basket configuration making it 44 kN mbs. I'm aware that most manufacturers of cams are very particular about having gear sent back to them for repair(probably for legal reasons) but this do it yourself repair seems sound to me. Any feedback would be very much appreciated.
C4 re slung
C4 re slung

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
May 22, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.
I'm not sure that just because you use a basket hitch, that doubles the strength of the sling. I could be wrong though. I seem to recall a DMM test video or something recently that showed the breaking strength of a basket hitch being at or near the stated strength from the factory.

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By JesseT
From Portland, OR
May 22, 2012
25' drop...wheeeeee!
Looks ok to me. Like mutton said though, doubling it doesn't necessarily double the strength.

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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
May 22, 2012
JesseT wrote:
Looks ok to me. Like mutton said though, doubling it doesn't necessarily double the strength.


Given the cam is only rated to 12-14kn, worrying about whether the sling is rated 22kn-44kn strikes me as a non-issue. Looks fine to me- just make sure to keep an eye on the sling, make sure it doesnt develop a specific wear point.

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By jim whitney
May 22, 2012
Pepsi Center
Right on. I was looking at the Donovan book for rigging but I'm not exactly sure how well that would translate into climbing gear. Ill drop a photo of what I was looking at I'm a minute. Thanks.

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By Darren in Vegas
From Las Vegas, NV
May 22, 2012
Skiing around.
John Wilder wrote:
Given the cam is only rated to 12-14kn, worrying about whether the sling is rated 22kn-44kn strikes me as a non-issue. Looks fine to me- just make sure to keep an eye on the sling, make sure it doesnt develop a specific wear point.

John do you know if it is the cam itself that is rated 12-14kN or if it is the cam with the factory sewn sling in place? In other words is the factory sewn sling the weak link, or is the metal camming unit that is?

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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
May 22, 2012
Darren in Vegas wrote:
John do you know if it is the cam itself that is rated 12-14kN or if it is the cam with the factory sewn sling in place? In other words is the factory sewn sling the weak link, or is the metal camming unit that is?


Its a combination of the metal camming unit and the unknown quanitity of the rock its placed in (this is why Metolius doesnt rate any of their cams over 10kn, even though the bigger ones pull to 18kn or more in the machine).

the slings all cams are slung with will be rated to around 22kn by themselves.

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By Jeff J
From Bozeman
May 22, 2012
Darren in Vegas wrote:
John do you know if it is the cam itself that is rated 12-14kN or if it is the cam with the factory sewn sling in place? In other words is the factory sewn sling the weak link, or is the metal camming unit that is?



In the pull tests i have seen its the axel or the lobes that fold rather than the sling on a cam...

Well its a rock empire rather than a BD but . . .it is rated to 14 KN


Rock Empire pull test

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By jim whitney
May 22, 2012
Pepsi Center
hitch load capacities
hitch load capacities

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By jim whitney
May 22, 2012
Pepsi Center
indeed, john! at work we have to follow osha guidelines for fall protection. i overlooked the fact that the cam unit is rated for way less than what i was looking for in the webbing. err on the side of caution i guess.

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By Jarmland
May 22, 2012
If you still have the old slings you can cut off a piece of each one and thread the two loops of dyneema through the original tube style sling before clipping them to the carabiner. Thus you get a more clean look and get to keep the colorcoding.. Just an idea I saw somewhere.

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By Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
May 22, 2012
OTL
Just make sure your partner knows they're not extendable slings.

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By jim whitney
May 23, 2012
Pepsi Center
All really good suggestions and info. Thank you! Some of the routes I'm looking to climb take probably more than one of the sizes I need to replace webbing on, so this is really just temporary until I have time to send them to bd.

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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
May 23, 2012
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord
jim i have done the same thing in the past with my 'B-team" cams, only difference is that i tied an overhand knot to shorten the length and to ensure the slings didn't come out. (bring on the flame-fest of how much a knot reduces the strength, blah blah blah).

link to old thread

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By TomCaldwell
From Clemson, S.C.
May 23, 2012
Me on One Pitch Wonder at Whitesides.  Photo credits to Kyle Jones and his lucky anti-rain jacket.
JLP wrote:
A rack of those would be a mess. I would worry about unintentional clipping and unclipping and dropped cams. Just send the thing into BD. It's cheap and turnaround is fast. You probably just spent more time and money on those 24" runners.


or use mountaintools if you are worried about sending it back to the manufacturer.

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By M Irving
May 23, 2012
I sent my pre C4 cams back to BD and they did an excellent job with a fast turnaround. Why send them anywhere else but the original manufacturer? They know exactly the proper configuration and the prices are reasonable.

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By DannyUncanny
From Vancouver
May 23, 2012
I would do something to make absolutely sure that you never clip only one half of that basket hitch by accident. My choice would be to stitch the two strands together with some thread so it is impossible to clip just one of them, but some people are uncomfortable putting a needle through their slings.

If they have dedicated biners, you could also rubber band the sling tight to the biner.

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By William Nelson
From Cave Creek, AZ
May 23, 2012
I just had my old school BD C4s reslung at Black Diamond. They cost $5 per cam and they came back in a couple weeks. I'm sure your Dyneema slings cost more than that and seem like they could easily tangle with others, become unclipped, etc. Short term I'd suggest putting a rubber band on them to keep them together, but when you get a chance, just send them back to BD bro. Just go to blackdiamondequipment.com and to FAQ section it provides all the shipping details, etc.

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By Crossing
From Breinigsville, PA
May 23, 2012
old rag summit
William Nelson wrote:
Short term I'd suggest putting a rubber band on them to keep them together


I would suggest Not putting a rubber band on them for the reasons shown is this video.


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By nbrown
From western NC
May 23, 2012
Top of Shortoff with the Bonsai
Maybe I'm just cheap, but I just tie standard nylon webbing (11/16), or spectra cord (cord - not spectra webbing) through the stem. Just keep an eye on the ends (RGold already mentioned using a double fishermans in another thread, which works very well and stays tied). I'm sure the re-slung jobs are better, as in lower profile, but I think a lot of people probably don't want to be without their cams for a couple weeks.

Also, regarding the sling strengths mentioned earlier: keep in mind that the slings should be able to withstand cutting over edges, whether it be a horizontal placement (typical in many eastern states' placements), or the sharp/funky edge of a conventional vertical placement. Most of my slings wear due to being chewed through by the rock - which is why those skinny dyneema slings aren't up to par for my taste. Plus they are more expensive anyway.

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