Route Guide - iPhone / Android - Partners - Forum - Photos - Deals - What's New - School of Rock
Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
Racking Cams Question
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
 
By kcradford
From Asheville, NC
Dec 14, 2012
Foot

I have been trad climbing for a couple years now and am starting to climb with some new people, and have noticed a habit that a lot of climbers seem to have and that is in the way that they rack their cams. The way I learned was to rack 3 or 4 cam on a single carabiner similar to the way most people rack nuts. when placing a cam you grab all 3 and place the cam and clip the rest back to your harness. I would then clip to the sling with a trad draw and extend it as needed.

I have noticed that a lot of people rack each cam on its own carabiner and when they place it the then clip a draw to the sewn sling leaving the carabiner that the cam was racked on the harness with hanging. Is this how most people rack cams?

my first reaction is that do these guys have so many carabiners that they can just leave one at every placement. my second reaction is that this could add up if you are concerned about weight.

Am I the weird kid?


FLAG
By Nick Evans
Dec 14, 2012

YES. You are the weird one...

Imagine dropping one cam and watching 3 or 4 others tumble to the base of the cliff with it. Now, with one mistake, 1/4 of your rack is lying on the ground and you are (possibly) stranded on route.

Just one advantage of racking individually. I'm sure others will follow...


FLAG
By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Dec 14, 2012
My navigator keeps me from getting lost

kcradford wrote:
... my second reaction is that this could add up if you are concerned about weight...


You are carrying two 'biners and a sling for every cam plus your racking 'biners. If you have each cam on its own 'biner you can clip directly into that 'biner on placements that don't need to be extended so you can carry fewer 'draws.

And, when you do need to extend, you leave the racking 'biner too, removing that weight from your harness. It's actually more efficient in regard to weight as long as you're not on a route that requires extension at almost every placement and you don't carry excess 'draws.


FLAG
By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Dec 14, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background

A cam on each biner makes it easier to grab and plug the cam you want when you are leading at your limit and being quick can be important. You don't need to take the time to remove the right cam and then replace the cams you didn't use. This assumes, of course, that you were able to pick the correct cam the first time...another good skill. It also makes it easier to clean IMO. The follower can place things back in order as s/he cleans them, and you don't need to take the time at the end of a pitch to put all the cams back on the appropriate carabiner.

The trade off, as you mentioned, is that there is more weight with one biner per cam. And, as you also mentioned, you have a bunch of "extra" carabiners. I personally think it is worth it to use one biner per cam and that these are good trade-offs. In the end, it doesn't matter what you do as long as you and your partner are on the same page.


FLAG
By henryb
From asheville, nc
Dec 14, 2012
thats me without my shirt but, all my hair

I agree with csproul. The change over time at belays is cut in half especially if the other leader racks the same.


FLAG
By Sean Nelb
From Grand Junction, CO
Dec 14, 2012
Some Like it Hot (5.12b). Devils Tower, WY

Racking cams individually and leaving the carabiner dangling from its sling after placement is faster. You are correct that this method increases the weight from all the extra carabiners, however, you can decrease the amount of draws that you have to carry, since unless you are climbing a very wandering line it is unlikely that you need a draw on each cam. Even if the weight is still greater from racking individually, the efficiency of this method compensates for this detriment. Being able to quickly place a piece, clip the rope through the racking carabiner, and speedily move through difficult terrain can be far more important than shaving off a few ounces from your rack.


FLAG
By Logan Schiff
From NY, NY
Dec 14, 2012

I have gone back and forth on this. Pros and cons to each have been mentioned by others. Recently I've putting putting the large cams on one biner and all others two to a biner. Feels like a good balance so far.


FLAG
By john strand
From southern colo
Dec 14, 2012

one cam/one biner don't worry so much about draws on each cam. You don't always have to extend each placement... you don't


FLAG
 
By Rob Warden, Space Lizard
From Springdale Ut
Dec 14, 2012
blah

my friend and coworker does this as well. I think its weird, he thinks it works. he grew up climbing in the Gunks and at Seneca, for him he says it works. He does it because your always clipping an alpine draw. in that case nesting cams make some sense. Well now we live in Utah and you only need to extend a placement when you go through a roof. He refuses to change his racking method even when I watch him get pumped out of his gourd on 5.8 trying to place gear. I think we need to be more flexible with how we rack. try out a gear sling, or single racking krabs. I don't think that it adds that much weight,and the ability to plug gear fast is worth the 29-36 grams a biner on 10-15 cams a pitch. when and if you start climbing hard trad every second your not moving means your hanging on a painful shitty jam... every second is slightly more agonizing than the last. The ability to get the cam in there fast and keep climbing to a real rest is a make or break issue. I would not enjoy nesting cams on tips or tight hands,ring locks, or god forbid awefulwidth. I cant even imagine me lifting a 4 a 5 and a 6 all on the same biner while held in place with a knee lock...ughhhhhhh.


FLAG
By Brad W
From San Diego
Dec 14, 2012

One of my partners does this and it makes cleaning and re-racking such a PITA. Also, the rack is a complete cluster after a few pitches (bc it's such a PITA to re-rack).

If you want to cut down on carabiners relative to the alpine draw method, do shoulder slings with 1 biner each and carry a half dozen-ish free wiregates for gear (nuts etc.) that don't have a dedicated racking biner for each piece.


FLAG
By R.Walters
Dec 14, 2012

As mentioned, on routes nearer to your limit, having the ability to plug and clip quickly is convenient with one carabiner per cam.

Also, FWIW, you can mitigate the weight disadvantage by splitting apart some of your alpine draws so that you just have a bunch of 24" slings with single carabiners on each. Wear these over your shoulder and then it's only one extra clip for placements requiring a runner. Of course, you want to keep a few in 'trad draw' mode for nuts/hexes/whate-have-you.

This is what I think of as the best optimization between convenience/speed and weight for alpine climbing.

EDIT: Sorry Brad W, didn't read your post at first. Looks like I added some redundancy. Oh well, consider it a +1 for that method.
Also, just thought of this, it might make an argument for having color-coded cams/biners when it comes time to quickly re-rack at the belay change-over.


FLAG
By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Dec 14, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background

And yes, you live in Asheville...of course you're the weird kid ;)


FLAG
By Mr. Holmes
From Cascade West
Dec 14, 2012
#2

john strand wrote:
one cam/one biner don't worry so much about draws on each cam. You don't always have to extend each placement... you don't



+1


FLAG
By david doucette
Dec 14, 2012
Top of Intersection Rock, Joshua Tree NP.

i rack each cam on a biner and carry about 6-8 quickdraws (slings) with only one biner attached. then i place the cam, clip the quickdraw (sling)to the biner already on the cam and clip the rope to the quickdraw. no need to carry two biners per quickdraw.

i've also started foregoing the quickdraw if the route is straight up enough and just clipping the rope right to the biner on the cam. saves some nice time.


FLAG
By Hiro
From Boulder, CO
Dec 14, 2012
Ouray Ice Park <br />Pick o' the Vic?

Do y'all also rack your C3s the same way? I currently have four C3s racked onto two biners. Not sure this is convenient or annoying, but I never end up placing all four, so 1-1 ratio seemed excessive.


FLAG
By Chris Norwood
From San Diego, CA
Dec 14, 2012
High on the Beckey Route on the Bastille Buttress of Lone Pine Peak

Hiro wrote:
Do y'all also rack your C3s the same way? I currently have four C3s racked onto two biners. Not sure this is convenient or annoying, but I never end up placing all four, so 1-1 ratio seemed excessive.

I rack all of my cams on individual biners except for my C3s. I only have 3 (yellow, red & green), and just rack them on a BD oval wire, then clip a draw to one when I use it. I do this mostly because I'm worse at eyeballing their placements than with big cams. My friends that climb harder (like 5.11 trad with lots of small placements) than I usually rack them individually.


FLAG
 
By Allen Corneau
From Houston, TX
Dec 15, 2012

Another vote for "one cam per biner".

I don't carry quickdraws on trad climbs. Instead I've gone to a system of:

1. Each cam on it's own biner, nuts bundled one set/biner, three Tricams (black, pink, red) on one biner.
2. Six 12" slings with one biner each, racked on my harness for short extensions.
3. Six 24" slings with one biner each, over the shoulder for longer extensions.
4. Two 48" slings with two biners, trad-draw style and twisted up, for really long extensions.
5. ~10 extra biners for nuts/Tricams as needed.

I've found this system works for me. I like having the option to clip straight in to the cam's racking biner or add a 12", 24", or 48" extension as needed with no extra biners left behind (except for the 48").

It also helps that almost all my biners are either CAMP Nano's or BD Neutrino's and my slings are BW Titan slings.


FLAG
By Drew Nevius
From Oklahoma
Dec 15, 2012
BETA: For me, crux move was sticking the move to the flake above these crimps

Logan Schiff wrote:
...large cams on one biner and all others two to a biner.


With little cams, when you may be less likely to pick the right size the first time, it makes sense to have multiple cams on one biner. That could actually save time, and will definitely save weight if you arent placing tons of those micro cams on the route. I'm referring to 00-1 or so Master Cam sizes


FLAG
By john strand
From southern colo
Dec 15, 2012

Allen Corneau wrote:
Another vote for "one cam per biner". I don't carry quickdraws on trad climbs. Instead I've gone to a system of: 1. Each cam on it's own biner, nuts bundled one set/biner, three Tricams (black, pink, red) on one biner. 2. Six 12" slings with one biner each, racked on my harness for short extensions. 3. Six 24" slings with one biner each, over the shoulder for longer extensions. 4. Two 48" slings with two biners, trad-draw style and twisted up, for really long extensions. 5. ~10 extra biners for nuts/Tricams as needed. I've found this system works for me. I like having the option to clip straight in to the cam's racking biner or add a 12", 24", or 48" extension as needed with no extra biners left behind (except for the 48"). It also helps that almost all my biners are either CAMP Nano's or BD Neutrino's and my slings are BW Titan slings.
You really carry 14 slings ?!


FLAG
By Clayton Knudson
From El Portal, CA
Dec 15, 2012

don't know if anybody mentioned this yet, but you also become very hard to climb with using that system. I've climbed with someone who nests their cams before and its very frustrating to get handed a total mess of cams with draws attached and some without, spare biners floating all over your harness to straighten out before you lead and not knowing how to re-rack which cams with others on what biners that leads to you, in turn, handing a total mess to your partner to straighten out for the next lead. i think the individual racking is more conducive to individual leaders styles and preferences as well as racking specifically for individual pitches that only require certain sizes or racking sizes to one side of your harness(think corner systems or roof traverses, etc.).


FLAG
By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Dec 15, 2012
You stay away from mah pig!

If you rack multiple cams on one biner, you are a noob.

It also makes it more likely that I will lose some of my own gear when I borrow your cams, and have to supply my own biners for them.


FLAG
By Allen Corneau
From Houston, TX
Dec 15, 2012

john strand wrote:
You really carry 14 slings ?!


The six 12": almost always
The six 24": may carry less, but depends if I need them or not
The two 48": usually one, sometimes both

It all really depends on the climb. If I don't know if I'll need them then I'd rather take them and not need them than not have them and really need them.


FLAG
By rogerbenton
Dec 15, 2012
Whoever this guy is, he's just plain irresponsible.

i rack black and blue aliens on one biner, and red, yellow and green c3's on a biner.

if doubles are needed i'll rack them together on a single biner up to a green c4, separately for larger cams.


FLAG
By bearbreeder
Dec 15, 2012

if you are racking multiple cams that youll need to place on one biner ... youre honestly not climbing very hard at all ... or are one hardcore strongazz mofo ...

chances are its not the later ;)


FLAG
 
By rogerbenton
Dec 15, 2012
Whoever this guy is, he's just plain irresponsible.

op's question had nothing to do with how hard people climb.


FLAG
By bearbreeder
Dec 15, 2012

rogerbenton wrote:
op's question had nothing to do with how hard people climb.



climb hard enough and youll realize the reason why people generally dont do this ;)

the questions was asked why ... and the answer is that once youre pumped out of your mind on a sustained 11+ finger crack at your limit ... you arent going to shuffle through your 2-3 TCUs on a single biner to select the best one ...

for the OP ... keep in mind that a lot of the stuff that people can get away with on moderates ... dont necessarily work when youre on "hard" sustainted climbs at your physical limits

thats also one of the reasons why people generally dont carry cowbells anymore for hard cragging

=P


FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>