Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
Quickdraw Thief Now in Ouray Colorado
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 1 of 1.  
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
 
By Bryan Gilmore
From Your Mama
Jul 10, 2011
Beagle
The quickdraw thief has made their way to Ouray, CO. Fully removing every draw and all 'biners from anchors at a new crag being developed and recently added to MP.com under the name "The Badger Den". They stole 20 draws and 5 anchors worth of anchors - so over $200 worth of hardware. LAME. Please, the equip. was there for everyone to use and now you've ruined it for everyone. Just put them back - and next time you need to borrow some draws, just ask.
This is one of the routes that was stripped.
This is one of the routes that was stripped.

FLAG
By TFB
From Boulder, CO
Jul 10, 2011
Which crag is this?

FLAG
By Bryan Gilmore
From Your Mama
Jul 10, 2011
Beagle
It's a new crag and is listed on mountainproject.com as the badger den. Check it out!

FLAG
By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Jul 10, 2011
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.
If you don't abandon your gear in wilderness areas, it won't be taken/stolen/cleaned up.

FLAG
By Bryan Gilmore
From Your Mama
Jul 10, 2011
Beagle
Marc H wrote:
If you don't abandon your gear in wilderness areas, it won't be taken/stolen/cleaned up.

Believe me, Ouray in general and this crag in particular is no wilderness area. This place had the S#!+ mined out of it, everywhere you look you'll find mining detritus. Besides, it was not abandoned, we were using the gear pretty much daily as we were in the middle of developing the area - for the general public. But, thanks for your input.

FLAG
By djkyote
Jul 11, 2011
Marc H wrote:
If you don't abandon your gear in wilderness areas, it won't be taken/stolen/cleaned up.


so anchors are abandoned gear?

FLAG
By djkyote
Jul 11, 2011
sorry to hear about this. the crag looks great. thanks for all your work.

FLAG
By Greg D
From Here
Jul 11, 2011
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W. <br />
Brian, I'm surprised you are surprised. I'm also surprised you support leaving fixed draws. Seems contrary to many of your beliefs.

FLAG
 
By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Jul 11, 2011
Stabby
First of all, whats up with your link going to some SF design firm?
Second, the crag name seems to be in flux
Third, you seem to have pissed off some locals
Fourth, so were there already existing bolts?
Fifth, what type of rock is that?

FLAG
By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Jul 11, 2011
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.
Beagle wrote:
Believe me, Ouray in general and this crag in particular is no wilderness area.


Pierce Adams wrote:
[Beagle and his buddies] only added bolts to existing routes. try talking to the first ascensionist before retro bolting.


Generally, I find it amusing when someone stumbles upon an area that they've never climbed before and just assume that no one else has ever climbed there. Especially when it's in an area where a lot of climbers live and it's apparently not exactly a hidden crag. In cases like this it's kinda sad though, because you apparently altered some other peoples' routes.

Beagle wrote:
This place had the S#!+ mined out of it, everywhere you look you'll find mining detritus.


Because somebody else dumped a bunch of old mining equipment out there 100 years ago, it's OK for you to abandon gear there and expect it to be there next time you return? I understand that mining equipment and a few hanging 'draws are worlds apart, but I still don't think that the fact that it used to be a mining area gives someone the right to do whatever they wish with it.

Beagle wrote:
Besides, it was not abandoned..


Keep telling yourself that. If you walked away from it--even for a couple days--you abandoned it.

Beagle wrote:
But, thanks for your input.


Did you post with the expectation that you'd only receive sympathetic responses?

--Marc

FLAG
By djkyote
Jul 11, 2011
taking someone's draws and leaving them in a pile at the base is making an 'ethical' statement, usually done by chuffer trads who can climb 5.10 on choss and think they have some sort of moral high ground over people that actually train and use the project draws. usually they aid up said draws to get to the anchors, because they would never have a prayer of actually climbing the line.

however, taking the draws is stealing, plain and simple. taking anchors is not only stealing, it is clearly theft and endangers the climbing community.

FLAG
By djkyote
Jul 11, 2011
Marc H wrote:
Because somebody else dumped a bunch of old mining equipment out there 100 years ago, it's OK for you to abandon gear there and expect it to be there next time you return? --Marc


project draws in a sport climbing area are not abandoned gear. i see you have climbing a lot in the valley. did those nifty chain belay anchors and pins get there by magic?

FLAG
By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Jul 11, 2011
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.
djkyote wrote:
taking someone's draws and leaving them in a pile at the base is making an 'ethical' statement..


And it usually leads to said 'draws going right back on the bolts from which they came and abandoned once again.

djkyote wrote:
, usually done by chuffer trads who can climb 5.10 on choss and think they have some sort of moral high ground over people that actually train and use the project draws. usually they aid up said draws to get to the anchors, because they would never have a prayer of actually climbing the line.


I'm sorry, who is it that's taking the "high ground" with statements like, "Usually they aid up said draws..because they would never have a prayer of actually climbing the line?" Pot, meet kettle.

djkyote wrote:
however, taking the draws is stealing, plain and simple.


It all depends on your perspective. I know a lot of climbers that considering it "cleaning up" an area, not stealing. Stealing implies they're are doing it for their own gain--to use or sell the 'draws. That's "plain and simply" not always the case.

djkyote wrote:
did those nifty chain belay anchors and pins get there by magic?


Fixed anchors are often placed out of necessity for safety, either because there is no other place in which to anchor, or because topping out presents too great of a risk of knocking loose shit down on the other climber(s) down below. Fixed 'draws area placed for convenience only. There is a huge difference. Do you honestly not understand the difference between anchors and fixed draws?

--Marc

FLAG
By djkyote
Jul 11, 2011
Marc H wrote:
Fixed anchors are often placed out of necessity for safety, either because there is no other place in which to anchor, or because topping out presents too great of a risk of knocking loose shit down on the other climber(s) in the area. Fixed 'draws area placed for convenience only. There is a huge difference. Do you honestly not understand the difference between anchors and fixed draws? --Marc



Do you understand that as climbing gets difficult and steep there is no difference?

mountainproject.com/v/10686317...

FLAG
By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Jul 11, 2011
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.
djkyote wrote:
Do you understand that as climbing gets difficult and steep there is no difference? mountainproject.com/v/10686317...


Hahahaha. Yeah, because the wall Beagle bolted and the arch that you linked are so similar. Sorry, I'm not fooled by your outrageously transparent straw-man arguments. I doubt many others are either.

--Marc

FLAG
By Toby Butterfield
From Portland, OR
Jul 11, 2011
Fear and Loathing.
Marc H wrote:
I know a lot of climbers that considering it "cleaning up" an area, not stealing. Stealing implies they're are doing it for their own gain--to use or sell the 'draws. That's "plain and simply" not always the case.


I don't really have my opinion on this sorted out yet, but this statement is total bullshit. Do you really think the people who pulled down these draws did it strictly because they thought they were crag trash, and that they would end up with a bunch of not-altogether-cheap gear was just an unhappy side effect? You don't think the booty factor forms even the tiniest part of their motivation?

I don't know anybody who would climb a hard line for the sole purpose of plucking a plastic bag off a hangar or something, but I know loads who would do it to booty a draw or cam or whatever. There's definitely a difference.

FLAG
 
By djkyote
Jul 11, 2011
Marc H wrote:
Hahahaha. Yeah, because the wall Beagle bolted and the arch that you linked are so similar. Sorry, I'm not fooled by your outrageously transparent straw-man arguments. I doubt many others are either. --Marc


transparent straw-man? wow. strong words dude. this wall is gently overhanging, like the one in Ouray, and has all in-situ draws:

mountainproject.com/v/10644093...

my point is that there is a precedent for rigging even a gently overhanging wall with in-situ draws. it may not be the precedent at this particular area in Ouray, and hopefully this sort of thing would be worked out by conversations between climbers to establish what areas deserve what level of situ-gear.

and yes, unless you are climbing trad with no chalk, , no shoes to leave climbing rubber, no anchors, no tatty slings with rap hangers, no trail, no removal of lichen, you are impacting the rock on some level including leaving in-situ, or fixed gear.

but, taking people's gear, left for public use, and calling it a public service is still stealing, cowardly, and ultimately selfish.

FLAG
By Bryan Gilmore
From Your Mama
Jul 11, 2011
Beagle
Greg D, I'm not surprised. But, I'm disappointed.

Mike, not sure about the SF design link, name is still evolving, I'm a local and one of maybe 4 people that establish routes here, there were some existing bolts and after talking to the original bolter who now lives over 2,000 miles away, learned that he never redpointed 2 of the lines. Limestone (leadville formation)

Marc H & Pierce, almost everything in Pierce's comment is untrue. No I don't feel it's ok to trash an area just because it's already trashed - you should see how much nicer this spot is now that we've been climbing there. I've cleaned up quite a bit of mining trash. Not sure if I agree with your definition of abandonment - I often walk away from my car and house for days at a time. And no, I didn't expect only sympathetic responses... this is the internet afterall.

Lastly, I'd be happy to show everyone interested the crag in question. It's quite fun and instead of hiding another fun spot, thought it'd be nice for people to be able to find and enjoy it. And if you have question regarding any climbs in the area I'd be happy to help as I've climbed at just about every crag within 100 miles.

FLAG
By Lulu
Jul 12, 2011
I'd like to know why some guy who lives in another state is lecturing two guys who actually live by the crag on what "locals" do???

FLAG
By Lulu
Jul 12, 2011
I'd also like to organize a search party to go search Marks garage for some "missing" climbing gear?? I just think we might find all the "abandoned gear" that's been stolen from crags across the country! Maybe even a few abandoned park benches or street signs??

FLAG
By Toby Butterfield
From Portland, OR
Jul 13, 2011
Fear and Loathing.
Lulu wrote:
I'd like to know why some guy who lives in another state is lecturing two guys who actually live by the crag on what "locals" do???


Are you talking about me? Because my statement was really more about human nature which, from what I recall from my 18 years living in Colorado, is about the same as in Oregon.

FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 1.