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Question About Open Projects - Mission Impossible -> Deathrow
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By Jeff Chrisler
From Boulder, CO
May 10, 2012

I was perusing through the Wall of the 90s Page in CC on here a while back and noticed that it seemed like the project called Mission Impossible was bolted by some chaps and then they asked others not to climb on it for a year. Is this the usual thing to do? I understand that it takes a great amount of effort to bolt a route, so I can understand that those who bolt would appreciate some time to be able to get the FA. But a year? That seems a bit much.

Are there any routes that were bolted and then some other person jumped in before said time period was over and got the FA without permission?

I am far from putting up new routes anywhere, but perhaps someday and would like to know the proper form in this regard.

As most know the project has now been sent by DW, and is now called Deathrow...

www.mountainproject.com/v/mission-impossible/107166892


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By Dave-o
From Boulder,CO
May 10, 2012

Hey Jeff
I believe you are referring to another route called Double Stout at the Wall of the 90's. The party who bolted it asked for a year to send the climb, but has since opened it up to the public. Mission Impossible was always open to any suitor.

Of course people have stolen first ascents. A great example would be a route at Rifle that was bolted by Andy Raether. When the route was swiped from him, they called it "Girl Talk".

Cheers

Dave-o


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By Jeff Chrisler
From Boulder, CO
May 10, 2012

Ah thanks Dave-o... you're correct. I noticed the Double Stout route as you mention. I thought the year request was a bit strange. Thanks for the info!


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By Josh Kornish
May 10, 2012
The Roach

In previous MP discussions on this topic the consensus for red tagging a route was one year.

I've never bolted a route but I've cleaned unclimbed problems and can tell you that even those are (can be) a ton of work.

I think asking a year is completely reasonable.

Now should the FA or Route bolter get to name the route?


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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
May 10, 2012
My navigator keeps me from getting lost

Read the route description and comments. The person who bolted it said, "Open Project:
This thing is hard, if you're gunning for it go get it!"


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By 1Eric Rhicard
May 10, 2012
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo

As a rule, if a person is working it on a regular basis (every time they go out) I let the bolter/cleaner/hopeful sender have at it. If it is an area they found and I didn't know about the area until they told me I leave it alone.

If they are not on it regularly and are starting other routes (pissing all over the place in order to claim/steal/own a line) that I or others have looked at then it is an open project as far as I am concerned.

If you can't climb it because of an injury I will leave it alone if you have demonstrated that you want to do it and are actively working it when not injured.

I figure that if you really want to do the rout then you had better be on it. I generally start one route and work it until I get it or open it up.

What really bugs me are people who think they can bolt up a number of routes that are too hard to do quickly. They then run around bolting and climbing other new routes while letting the claimed route sit. They often have excuses for why they are not working it. I am not in shape being the most common. Well, get on it every day and work it and you will get in shape and send.

Just my take down here in SW Arizona.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
May 10, 2012
Bocan

Didn't Henry Barber get a rep for swooping in and grabbing FA's on other people's projects? I don't know if they called them "projects" back then though.


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By Jeff Chrisler
From Boulder, CO
May 10, 2012

Good points Eric.

I think that at the least the bolter should get to name the route because they put in the time to bolt it. Obviously, this is not the case with most I've seen though included Deathrow. If I were the FA and friends with the bolter, I'd certainly keep the name they gave it, but perhaps I would feel differently if I were in that position and cranked that hard on something.


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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
May 10, 2012
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord

Dave-o wrote:
Hey Jeff I believe you are referring to another route called Double Stout at the Wall of the 90's. The party who bolted it asked for a year to send the climb, but has since opened it up to the public. Mission Impossible was always open to any suitor.


For anyone who cares, I can clarify what actually happened. I bolted DS in 2009. I sent to the first anchor under the roof. I red tagged the extension as Dave and I worked on it. We were there often and the lower route didn't really get any attention from anyone else anyway. Sure people knew about it, but most just thought that the wall past reefer madness was only where you go peepee.

I did not "ask" anyone for a year. I put out some teasers here and there about it bc we were psyched, but i don't think anyone really cared. It just turns out that I posted it to the MP database a year after I bolted it to semi-officially announce it was an open proj, brah. I moved to Flagstaff, and it has now been almost 2 years since then(3 since it was created), and the extension still goes unsent.

This wasn't a case where we couldn't do the route, we clearly showed 'countless' times the moves went and we one-hung it over and over. The Mourning Glory, however, I opened to the public very quickly as I realized the difficulty... I didn't mind that Daniel renamed it from my working name of "Belays of Glory", bc he used the name i gave the crag. The media says I "bolted and freed it as an aid route". Which i dont know what that means, other than the style i bolted it was on lead rope-solo and using aid. (!?)

Regarding Mission Impossible (aka Deathrow), Jay opened that up. Him and his friends all worked on it, and it only took a little while for some heavy hitters to check it out (Jstar and DW). As far as the name, there is talk that Daniel may change the name back to Mission Impossible. Which is another interesting issue...


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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
May 10, 2012
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord

Darren Mabe wrote:
As far as the name, there is talk that Daniel may change the name back to Mission Impossible.

and there ya go: www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/daniel-woods-completes-fir>>>


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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
May 10, 2012
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.

A little searching goes a long way.

Thread from last year

Another thread on the same subject


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By Jeff Chrisler
From Boulder, CO
May 10, 2012

Thanks for the background info. I'm not trying to start an issue- was just wondering the 'rules' of this sort of thing. Very cool that people out there are generally cool with the way things are done, and as always thanks to the bolters


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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
May 10, 2012
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Peak.

It's my understanding that you need to shout out, "Swiper, no swiping!" three times to ensure that your route is not snaked. Always wait for the "Awww, man!"


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By KDog
May 11, 2012

I think a year is totally acceptable, as long as the person is actively attempting the route (Darren and Dave were ACTIVELY attempting the Double Stout, I can attest to that! And both getting THISCLOSE too.) I think the locals that know those guys and know the route were totally respectful of that too, which is awesome.

I'd hope most people out there would do the same & be respectful (if it were a similar request) as bolting takes a lot of time, energy, knowledge and money. Let the bolter who put in that effort have the first go. And if it doesn't work out, open it up after a reasonable amount of time and let others have their shot too :) I've been pretty psyched hearing about all this hard stuff going down in Clear Creek recently, it's exciting & I'm sure the bolters of those routes are psyched too!


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By Eric D
From Gnarnia
May 11, 2012
Born again on the last move of the Red Dihedral, high Sierras.

A year is entirely reasonable. Respecting those kinds of requests is a good way to say "thank you" to people that spend time and money putting routes up for the rest of us.


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By J Q
May 11, 2012
Me again!

It has as much to do with an active working of the project in my opinion but a year seems totally reasonable if they are.


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