By phil broscovak
From Boo-older, Co.
May 2, 2008
| Charles I find it annoying that you and several others want to accept unreasonable authority and lay blame at the feet of the victimized. I do pay and I do follow the rules. They are still rude, unpleasant and mean spirited. Instead of appreciating their easy life of camping in the great outdoors they could be working as greeters at a Wallmart or fry cooks at McDonalds. Now that would justify their pissy attitude. I for one would be glad to see them removed!
An example of their lousy behavior came this last week. One of our campers was getting a legal fire started. The fire was slow to catch and smoking up a storm. The attack 'hosts' were at our site in minutes. "What are you burning?" they demanded. His response was "that wood you sold us". "Oh" they grumbled and left in a snarling huff. | 
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By Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
May 2, 2008
| I too wonder why the 13 Mile Nazis continue to do duty year after year when they seem to dislike their job and their clientele so much (and besides, that campground bites...what is the allure of living there every year?).
I recall one interaction with them being reasonable, but honestly all the rest are memories of overly-involved, police state type of monitoring.
I'm not sure if weasly, insubordinate, dirt bagging climbers really made them the way they are (to me, that assumption is still just an assumption as you can find such behavior in other campgrounds in other places and the host/ranger response is not at all as pervasive and ongoing like in 13 Mile), but considering that the majority of campers there are unlikely to fit that profile anyway (i.e. most people are honest, pay their fee, follow the rules, climber or no), I don't see its justification.
The second to last time I was there, we had three vehicles total (only two are allowed in a site). We asked our neighbors if we could park one of them in their space since they had one vehicle and they said, "sure." One day, we moved the vehicle back over to our site in the morning in order to load up and drive out to the park to climb. Within five minutes or less after we moved the vehicle, the hosts were at our site screeching, "We TOLD you, ONLY TWO VEHICLES IN A SITE!"
We were like, "No sh*t, we're just packing up our gear for the day, lady! Can you handle that??" (Okay, we didn't really say it like that, but I wish I could have.)
Don't tell me this response is appropriate because all us climbers are so subversive that we can't be given the benefit of the doubt for even 20 minutes before jumping to conclusions.
Anyway, I try just to be as neutral as possible when interacting with them and remember that they will eventually die....sooner than me. ;-P |
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By Jason D. Martin
May 2, 2008
| The problem is that they get back what they dish out. When they give people crap about insignificant things, those people sometimes do things to "get back at them."
If they approached climbers and other campers the same way that 90 percent of the other campground hosts in the country approach people -- that is in a polite way -- they would probably be much happier people.
For those of you who think that this is a couple of people only jumping on rude or inconsiderate climbers, you're mistaken. People who follow rules to a T are attacked at that campground. If you don't believe me, just go camp there. You'll find out the hard way.
Jason |
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By Brad Brandewie
May 2, 2008
| Just to add a point on the other side of the discussion...
I have been to this campground only once but I found the camp hosts to be friendly and accommodating.
We threw an impromptu party at our site at the end of a rainy day. (basically the folks from several other sites came to our site/campfire for an evening) During the course of our drinking and antics, it became obvious that one of the guys in attendance was being too loud and too forward with several of the ladies who were there. My partner asked him to leave and he refused amid a flurry of very loud profanity. At this point, several of the guys who witnessed all of this approached him together and told him to leave or be removed. He left.
I was sure that the hosts would be at our site any second to tell us to STFU. They would have been within their rights to do so IMO. None-the-less, they didn't come.
While all of this drama was playing out with the guy who we asked to leave, his partner (we assume) decided to through 5 Duraflame logs on our campfire. Needless to say the fire became too big. We weren't worried about the fire spreading because of the rain but the flames were taller than me and it was just wrong. We were in the process of reducing the fire when the camp host showed up.
He very politely asked if we thought the fire was too big and we said yes and that we were in the process of dealing with it. He then asked if we need any help to which we said no. He seemed fine with that and went on to say that he had just heard the latest weather forecast and that the weather looked good for the next few days.
We offered him a bear and a chair next to the fire but he declined saying he had left his wife back at their own campfire and should be getting back.
He left... we climbed... and all was well in the Universe.
EDIT to add- On the other side of the RR coin are the idiots that decided that we should have to call in if we think we might be out past dark. LAME! |
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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
May 2, 2008
| I think the difference there was that your host was a he, Brad. The rude one in question seems to be female. |
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By Coz Teplitz
From Watertown, MA
May 2, 2008
| I, too, have had several nasty runs-in with the hosts of that campground, and I have always paid and always intended to pay. As others have noted, you are expected to abide by rules instantaneously and seem to provide little leeway for life getting in the way of those rules (see earlier post about loading three vehicles - I've had a similar experience). I am especially incensed by the generator that those same hosts run throughout the night - which is in direct violation of the same rules that those hosts so stringently enforce. I've left several "feedback forms" about this, and nothing seems to change. If you're there and you are brave enough, go up to them after 10pm and ask them to shut it off - I'd be curious to see what happens.
On the other hand, I had an unusual (and amusing) experience with the lady there once. A friend arrived after dark and had some reason to go speak with the hosts - I forget the exact reason, but it was something like not having any payment envelopes, that sort of thing. I was bored and joined him for the walk over to their trailer. Along the way, I filled his ears with stories about how harsh and exacting these hosts had been to me, and by the time we got to the trailer he was nervous to even knock on the door. He gathered his courage, knocked, and we both almost guffawed aloud when the lady opened the door. She was standing in an honest-to-goodness grandma-style nightgown, complete with warm slippers. The transaction was completed with every ounce of kindness you would expect from someone who looked like a grandmother one would find on "Mr. Roger's Neighborhood". On the walk back to site, my friend chided me on being "unnecessarily prejudiced against the elderly". Every time she approaches in the truck or the golf-cart thing now, I see her in her nightie, and whatever animosity I feel disappears into chortles at the image. |
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By Will S
From Joshua Tree
May 2, 2008
| Couple things:
Phil: They were pumping out the shitters when I was there in Feb. The BLM fire crew guys were coming in to flood them first (to allow the pump truck to extract it easier) and left them 90% full of water for a day or so...and the entire campground smelled like rancid shit because of it. Not a big deal since we were out climbing all day. Nice to have some hand sanitizer and lights in the loos, I'll give em that much.
There is more than one set of hosts at that CG. Two couples as best as I could tell, in two giant motorcoaches, working on opposing shifts. Maybe both sets suck..I don't know...only had to deal with one set and know that I've had similar experiences as others report there with being treated rudely while breaking no rules.
I was one of the Camp 4 campground hosts in Yos last year. It's can be a very annoying job to do because you're constantly having to get on people for doing obviously stupid shit. So I can sympathize with them to a degree. I definitely reached the end of my patience and was "short" and "rude" to plenty of people (which incidentally ended up being non-climbers 95% of the time because the climbers in C4 usually stay somewhat on the DL). After telling the 800th suburbanite yuppy that collecting firewood was not allowed, and knowing they were told this at check-in, and then catching them trying to do it anyway AFTER I'd politely reminded them...it kinda grates on a person.
Anyway...BLM failed us big time on that CG, besides the cantankerous hosts, it's just poorly sited and one of the worst CGs that I use. Too bad the old CG is closed, seemed much nicer. |
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By Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
May 2, 2008
| Tim Stich wrote: I think the difference there was that your host was a he, Brad. The rude one in question seems to be female.
No; this is wrong. The one "good" interaction I had was with the lady, actually. But the old man has been just as cantankerous. My first trip there ever, my friend and I roll in at 4 am and promptly throw our sleeping bags down and pass out on the sand. Come 8 am, the man parks his cart and awakens us, demanding payment right then. (I've been camping all my life all over the U.S. and was in shock that he did not trust us to pay in a couple hours once we were more coherent and awake, but instead forced my friend out of her sleeping bag immediately.) When she wrote down the "date in" as that same day, he argued, "No! You didn't arrive today, you arrived last night!" We said, "No, we didn't, we arrived only 4 hours ago. That would mean we arrived today." He said, "I don't care, you have to pay for the whole night." Okay, fair enough....but at exactly what point does "yesterday" turn into "today," I wonder? As long as you arrive after their first pass??
Coz Teplitz wrote: The transaction was completed with every ounce of kindness you would expect from someone who looked like a grandmother one would find on "Mr. Roger's Neighborhood".
That's because she had clearly just taken her medication for the night. And probably chased it with some Scotch. Duh!
Will S wrote: There is more than one set of hosts at that CG. Two couples as best as I could tell, in two giant motorcoaches, working on opposing shifts. Maybe both sets suck..I don't know...
I've sometimes wondered about this.... I suspect one half of each couple--don't know which--is somehow twins (therefore that would explain the similar temperments) and clearly each married a spouse who either already had or developed a likewise controlling and ungracious habit. They just trade their RV back and forth and have get-togethers during the off season to talk about and compare enforcement incidents during their split time as Keepers of 13 Mile.
At the same time, I admit that all old, white people look to the same to me, so maybe my theory is a bit off.
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By Jim Amidon
May 2, 2008
| Do anything you can to avoid this shit hole.......
Pay extra at a casino and AVOID this place....
Calling it a campground insults the idea of camping |
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By rgold
From Poughkeepsie, NY
May 3, 2008
| I've stayed in the campground and stayed in the casinos. There are advantages to each. The campground isn't the greatest, but I never had any bad interactions with the hosts.
I do have one perhaps counterintuitive observation: You can manage early starts much better from a hotel room. When I stayed at a hotel, we consistently beat campground parties to the climbs by just getting there sooner. (Certainly not, in our case, by walking faster!). Red Rocks crowds being what they are, this is arguably an advantage worth paying for, if you have the bucks to do it. |
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By Charles Dalgleish
From Salt Lake City, Utah
May 3, 2008
| phil broscovak wrote: Charles I find it annoying that you and several others want to accept unreasonable authority and lay blame at the feet of the victimized. I do pay and I do follow the rules. They are still rude, unpleasant and mean spirited. Instead of appreciating their easy life of camping in the great outdoors they could be working as greeters at a Wallmart or fry cooks at McDonalds. Now that would justify their pissy attitude. I for one would be glad to see them removed!
And you are wholey entitled to your opinion.
I personally have never had an issue with them. Just like I don't blame a cop for setting a speed trap at the bottom of a hill. If I'm speeding, black and white, I'm speeding.
I know that it's one of the interwebz main appeals, to come on and bemoan how the world is out to get you but jebus, take some responsability for your actions. Plain and simple. If you camp in your car, expect to get be awaken to a tap tap/pound pound and demands for payment or movement. If you go into a the outdoors and leave your stuff laying around, while I can sympathize that it may disappear, it's not an indication of how the world is out to get you, it's a sign of immaturity to believe it's okay to leave stuff around. If you drive off road in a wilderness posted area, don't cry if the "authorities" bust your balls. Or lastly, if you are gonna smoke weed and keep it in your car, don't cry if you get busted for it.
That said, people don't always work their ideal jobs, nor is everyone an enjoyable business experience. I work F&B, don't mind my job but some people make it downright loathesome. Doesn't mean that it's okay for them to not pay me for the burger I brought them, or to stay at a table and not order for 3 hours. If you worked janitorial and someone sheet all over the floor in the stall, while it is your job to clean it up, it may not really be within the realms of what makes for a good day. When you get the same group coming in who consistantly take a dump on the floor, you may simply come to accept it and treat them differently then the rest.
Now is that the case at mile 13? I can say I've stayed there about 10 times in 5 years and only had one time where they came and bugged me, which was because i had just finished setting up camp and hadn't paid yet since all the other spots were full and I didn't want to lose mine. Was it a big deal, nope, as I knew the policy that is posted, and i accepted it by choosing to stay there.
If you go to a hotel and checkout is posted at 11, and the knock at 11 asking you to leave, it's not their discourtesy, it's yours.
All the above with a grain of salt, and if you've had a good or bad experience with the campground, contact the management company. But crying crocodile tears on the interwebz ain't gonna make for a more hospitable campground. Perhaps bring cookies next time and thank them for doing a fantastic job. See if they ride you about the cookies having too much chocolate or cinnamon, and post a thread about the campground host declining your offer of cookies which confirms they are in league with the devil....
Anyways, sorry if this gets anyones feathers all ruffled, but most of the point is what comes around goes around. Take a good attitude in and try and understand what's going on before condeming them. |
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By phil broscovak
From Boo-older, Co.
May 4, 2008
| Schiza Charles you make a lot of wholesale assumptions. Where did I ever say anything about bemoaning being busted breaking the rules?
I am saying that even following the rules (the same rules the hosts themselves don't follow) they are nasty and unpleasant. You seriously want us too take them cookies? Alice B Tokeless brownies maybe. Wake up and smell the latrine fool. You probably have never been hassled by the BLM rangers either and thus don't understand why some folks would complain about them. They are just doing their oh so difficult jobs after all and if we don't take them cookies we must be bad people due for harassment. Well I have been going out to RR for over 30 years and I am here to tell you THEY SUCK! I am likely one of the very few climbers to have beaten them in court thus I have a interesting perspective. They know exactly just how suckfull they are towards to climbers. It is a deliberate effort to deter climbers and it is unnecessary! Do you honestly think climbers are such terrible people that they deserve to be treated guilty until proven less guilty? Maybe you should take up golf. |
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By phil broscovak
From Boo-older, Co.
May 4, 2008
| Granted rules are rules but this is 13 mile campground not Gitmo. People on vacation have a right to let down their hair a little. |
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By John Hegyes
From Las Vegas, NV
May 4, 2008
| phil broscovak wrote: I am likely one of the very few climbers to have beaten them in court thus I have a interesting perspective.
Phil, sounds like the makings of an interesting story here so I'll bite... How did you beat them in court? |
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By Charles Dalgleish
From Salt Lake City, Utah
May 4, 2008
| phil broscovak wrote: Schiza Charles you make a lot of wholesale assumptions. Where did I ever say anything about bemoaning being busted breaking the rules? I am saying that even following the rules (the same rules the hosts themselves don't follow) they are nasty and unpleasant. You seriously want us too take them cookies? Alice B Tokeless brownies maybe. Wake up and smell the latrine fool. You probably have never been hassled by the BLM rangers either and thus don't understand why some folks would complain about them. They are just doing their oh so difficult jobs after all and if we don't take them cookies we must be bad people due for harassment. Well I have been going out to RR for over 30 years and I am here to tell you THEY SUCK! I am likely one of the very few climbers to have beaten them in court thus I have a interesting perspective. They know exactly just how suckfull they are towards to climbers. It is a deliberate effort to deter climbers and it is unnecessary! Do you honestly think climbers are such terrible people that they deserve to be treated guilty until proven less guilty? Maybe you should take up golf.
Your post pretty much confirms everything it tries to deny, thanks, QFT. |
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By Andrew Carson
From Wilson, WY
May 4, 2008
| There was a great song going around a few years ago, sung to the tune of Camptown Races, about the 'hosts'. It should be posted here for comic relief. Also, it quite aptly described their antics. Funny. I'll look around....might have it stored somewhere. |
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By phil broscovak
From Boo-older, Co.
May 4, 2008
| Pardon my blogspeak ignorance but what does QFT stand for?
And John story to follow when I have time. |
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By Charles Dalgleish
From Salt Lake City, Utah
May 4, 2008
| Jared Workman wrote: First QFT on MP.
I guess it just doesn't come up much, aprticularly from utah boards=)
In short, it's Quoted For Truth. |
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By Andrew Carson
From Wilson, WY
May 5, 2008
| Here's the song. A little bird was singing it at my doorstep this morning:
Sung to "Camptown Races"
Da Campground Nazis sing this song, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Da Campground Nazis four pair strong, oh de doo-dah
day.
Drivin' round all night,
Drivin' round all day,
Campground Nazis sittin' in da truck,
Playin' da tool every day.
Friends showed up to ride along, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Nazis freaked and said 'be gone!', oh de doo-dah day.
Drivin' round all night,
Drivin' round all day,
Got out of da truck to chew my ass,
Why won't they just go away.
Campground Nazis came real late, doo-dah, doo-dah,
'Don't park crooked make it straight,' oh de doo-dah
day.
Drivin' round all night,
Drivin' round all day,
Shoulda been smart and got a group site,
Like NOLS or AMGA.
Campground small and nice and flat, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Nazis drive and stay real fat, oh de doo-dah day.
Drivin' round all night,
Drivin' round all day,
What a heinous waste of gas,
One for which we pay.
Rattlesnake curled near my hat, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Campground Nazis smash it flat, oh de doo-dah day.
Howling winds all night,
Howling winds all day,
Staked my tent down real good,
The others just blew away.
Had a tire over the line, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Campground Nazis said 'Big fine," oh de doo-dah day.
Climbing into the night,
Climbing 'round all day,
Bet you when we get back to the tent,
They'll have something to say.
Between the gun range and the mine, doo-dah, doo-dah,
13 Mile it's so fine, oh de doo-dah day.
Climbing into the night,
Climbing 'round all day,
Paid my money in a minute flat,
Still got harassed anyway.
Campground Nazis have their way, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Public lands yet we pay, oh de doo-dah day.
Climbing into the night,
Climbing 'round all day,
Red Rocks climbing is real good,
But it's 'pay to play.'
Flat and windy and Nazi zoo, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Worst campground I've been to, oh de doo-dah day.
Climbing into the night,
Climbing 'round all day,
Got back to my tent late one night,
But da Nazis took it away.
Da Campground Nazis ban dis song, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Da Campground Nazis never wrong, oh de doo-dah day.
Climbing into the night,
Climbing 'round all day,
Thought that I could take their crap,
But da Nazis scared me away. |
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By phil broscovak
From Boo-older, Co.
May 5, 2008
| What, you don't want to take them cookies? You must be one of them enema competents. Aint that right (wing) Charles D? |
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By Charles Dalgleish
From Salt Lake City, Utah
May 5, 2008
| phil broscovak wrote: What, you don't want to take them cookies? You must be one of them enema competents. Aint that right (wing) Charles D?
Like I said, I've never had a problem with them, but that could be because I FOLLOW THE POSTED RULES. Novel concept I suppose, guess it's easier to name call and cry about it. Good job, gotta keep the internetz full of tears phil, keep up the good work with the "oh nooooes, I am a victim because I can't follow the rules everyone else does but I expect sympathy for it".
And I like the toon, not as smooth as some of the skydiving dity's I'm used to (some people claim there's a rigger to blame, but I know, it's my own damn fault) |
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By Jason D. Martin
May 5, 2008
| Charles,
You don't get it. People who follow the rules to a T still get harassed. Just because you've never had a problem doesn't mean that there is no problem.
Jason |
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By Charles Dalgleish
From Salt Lake City, Utah
May 5, 2008
| Jason D. Martin wrote: Charles, You don't get it. People who follow the rules to a T still get harassed. Just because you've never had a problem doesn't mean that there is no problem. Jason
Could be, not saying it doesn't happen. But reading this thread alone, you'll find the number of cries about the "nazi's" all come down to rule breaking save 1 post. Further, the tone of most all the posts (and the use of "nazi")goes a pretty fair ways to show that SOME of hte attitude may very well be warrented.
Let me reiterate my stance on the matter: If you feel that the staff is doing a good/poor job, please contact the company that runs it. That is if you want to voice something that may actually matter. If you are here to cry and moan and not achieve any change, then feel free to call them nazi's and state that anyone who thinks taking a shitty attitude with them won't make it better isa right winger. I'm of the opinion that treating people with respect begets more of the same. Treating the hosts as villians because YOU DIDN'T PAY and they called you on it is simply assinying(sp?).
Feel free to talk ill, or suggest staying anywhere else. But realize that crying about it on the interwebz amounts to nothing more than "ohhhh nooooes!".
And who knows, maybe bringing them cookies may make your stay better. If I showed up to a hotel or anywhere else and greeted them, gave them a cookie, and shook their hand, I bet they would treat me a fair bit better than if I snuck in after dark and tried to poach a spot in the parking lot/hot tub.
So until you actually contact the operating company and let them know your experience and ask if there is anything that can be done to accomodate the (i'm guessing) majority of the campers there (climbers), and see if they will rectify the situation, there really isn't this thread will really accomplish.
but feel free to flame me some more, or post about the "nazi's" and how they poisoned your milk too, or farted in the grocery store line. |
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By alpinglow
From city, state
May 5, 2008
| Worst camphosts EVER!
I reiterate every problem and comment since this place opened.
I live here now and went out to visit some friends. As I was leaving the old man in his truck flashed his brights and turned on his yellow lights...
I drove right past...
He flips a U'ey, and gives chase...
I keep driving and speed up...
He chases more...
I dust him... |
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