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Primo Wall

Routes Sorted
L to R R to L Alpha
Battle With a Bush T 
Breakfast Club S 
City Slickers S 
Crying Flyboys S 
Doomsday Birthday T 
Eternal Recurrence S 
Flyin' Child S 
Flying Cowboys S 
Grim Aura S 
Groan Up S 
Halle-Bop S,TR 
Hangman S 
Hooves! T 
Inner Gorilla S 
Killer Pillar S,TR 
Less Happy Fun Time S 
Mildage S 
Mirthmobile S,TR 
Moving Out S 
Primetime To Shine S 
Primeval S 
Problem Child S 
Public Play S 
Public Solitude S 
Public Suck Shine S 
Relative To Standing S 
River Run S 
Shine S 
Squeeze Play S 
Squeezing My Will to Live S 
Suburban Cowgirls S 
Sucking My Will to Live S 
Sucking My Will to Squeeze S 
Super Happy Fun Time S 
Suspended Sentence S 
Tater Tot S 

Primo Wall  


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Location: 39.739, -105.41549 View Map  Incorrect?
Page Views: 77,265
Administrators: Ben Mottinger, Leo Paik, John McNamee, Frances Fierst, Monomaniac, Kristine Hoffman (sitewide)
Submitted By: Nate Weitzel on Jan 1, 2001
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  • Description 

    The Primo Wall is one of three formations at the top of Clear Creeek Canyon including the Crystal Tower and the Nomad's Cave, and has a collection of the best and most difficult lines in Clear Creek. The Primo Wall, unlike it neighbor the Nomad's Cave, uses entirely natural holds (no drilled pockets) and boasts climbs ranging from 5.10 to 5.13d/5.14a. All of the routes on this overhung formation are excellent and and on solid stone. In general the routes are well bolted, although a couple of routes have some slight runouts. This crag is north facing and in the shade, so it makes a fantastic summer crag when the temperature is too hot for many other areas. Of course that means winter climbing here is quite brutal. There are plenty of routes in the 5.12 range to chose from, and a number of hard testpieces for those working on 5.13. Two routes here clock in at 5.13d/14a in case you are feeling extra strong that day.

    Getting There 

    Primo Wall is near the top of Clear Creek. Park in a large pullout at 11.3 miles on the north side. This is just past tunnel 6. Often there is a tyrolean traverse in place from this pullout or downstream 100 feet, and if in place this makes the approach easy. Just cross the stream and find the trail to the cliff. If there is no tyrolean, then you should drive another 0.5 miles up the canyon to where the creek crosses under the road. Park in a pullout here (south side) and find the rough trail that heads back downstream on the north side. This trail is good most of the way, but one will encounter some exposed scrambling above cliffs and the creek. Take caution. This trail leads you past the Nomad's Cave on the way to the Primo Wall. One note: There has been a few instances of vandalism to cars at this pullout, so make sure to lock up, remove valuables, and keep your eye out for any strange activity.

    L->R: 

    Up and left of the main area:

    A. Battle With a Bush, 9, 1p, 40', gear.
    B? Doomsday Birthday, 8, 1p, 70', gear.
    C? Inner Gorilla, 12, 1p, 45', bolts.
    D? Mildage, 11+, 1p, 40', bolts.

    Main area:

    E. Halle-Bop, 10+, 1p, 40', bolts.
    F. Mirthmobile, 10-, 1p, 40', bolts.
    G. Killer Pillar, 10, 1p, 40', bolts.
    H. Public Solitude, 13, 1p, 45', bolts.
    IH. Public Play, 13, 1p, 45', bolts.
    I. Squeeze Play, 13, 1p, 40', bolts.
    var JI. Squeezing My Will to Live, 13-, 1p, 60', bolts, linkup.
    var JI. Sucking My Will to Squeeze, 13-, 1p, 40', bolts, linkup.
    J. Sucking My Will To Live, 12+, 1p, bolts.
    K. Shine, 14-, 1p, bolts.
    L. Primeval, 13+, 1p, bolts.
    LK. Primetime To Shine 14, 1p, 40', bolts, linkup.
    LKJ. Grim Aura, 13+, 1p, bolts, linkup.
    M. Eternal Recurrence, 14-, 1p, bolts.
    N. City Slickers, 12-, 1p, bolts.
    ON. Suburban Cowgirls, 11+ R, 1p, 60', bolts.
    ...above ON. Problem Child, 13+?, 1p, project, bolts.
    P. Flying Cowboys, 12+, 1p, bolts.
    Q. Crying Flyboys, 12+, 1p, 35', bolts.
    R. Breakfast Club, 12-, 1p, bolts.
    SR. Groan Up, 11, 1p, 50', bolts.
    T. River Run, 13, 1p, 50', bolts.
    U. Moving Out, 12, 1p, 50', bolts.
    V. Relative To Standing, 11-, 1p, 45', bolts.
    W1. Suspended Sentence, 12, 1p, bolts.
    W2. Hangman, 12, 1p, 40', bolts.
    X. Tater Tot, 13, 1p, 25', bolts.
    Y. Hooves!, 9+, 1p, 50', gear.

    Climbing Season



    Weather station 5.4 miles from here

    36 Total Routes

    ['4 Stars',2],['3 Stars',20],['2 Stars',13],['1 Star',1],['Bomb',0]
    ['<=5.6',0],['5.7',0],['5.8',1],['5.9',2],['5.10',3],['5.11',4],['5.12',8],['5.13',14],['>=5.14',4],['',0],['<=V1',0],['V2-3',0],['V4-5',0],['V6-7',0],['V8-9',0],['V10-11',0],['V12-13',0],['>=V14',0]

    The Classics

    Mountain Project's determination of some of the classic, most popular, highest rated routes for Primo Wall:
    Mirthmobile   5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a     Sport, TR, 1 pitch, 40'   
    Killer Pillar   5.10b 6a+ 19 VII- 19 E2 5b     Sport, TR, 1 pitch, 40'   
    City Slickers   5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a     Sport, 1 pitch   
    Hangman   5.12b 7b 26 VIII+ 26 E5 6b     Sport, 1 pitch, 40'   
    Moving Out   5.12b 7b 26 VIII+ 26 E5 6b     Sport, 1 pitch, 50'   
    Sucking My Will to Live   5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b     Sport, 1 pitch   
    Flying Cowboys   5.12d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b     Sport, 1 pitch   
    Inner Gorilla   5.12d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b     Sport, 1 pitch, 45'   
    Flyin' Child   5.13a 7c+ 29 IX+ 29 E6 6c     Sport, 1 pitch, 50'   
    Squeezing My Will to Live   5.13a 7c+ 29 IX+ 29 E6 6c     Sport, 1 pitch, 60'   
    Crying Flyboys   5.13a 7c+ 29 IX+ 29 E6 6c     Sport, 1 pitch, 35'   
    Problem Child   5.13b 8a 29 IX+ 30 E7 6c     Sport, 1 pitch, 60'   
    River Run   5.13b 8a 29 IX+ 30 E7 6c     Sport, 1 pitch, 50'   
    Public Solitude   5.13 8a 29 X- 30 E7 6c     Sport, 1 pitch   
    Squeeze Play   5.13c 8a+ 30 X- 31 E7 7a     Sport, 1 pitch, 40'   
    Public Play   5.13c 8a+ 30 X- 31 E7 7a     Sport, 1 pitch, 45'   
    Grim Aura   5.13+ 8b 30 X- 31 E7 7a     Sport, 1 pitch   
    Primeval   5.13+ 8b 30 X- 31 E7 7a     Sport, Chipped, 1 pitch   
    Shine   5.14a 8b+ 32 X+ 32 E8 7a     Sport, 1 pitch   
    Primetime To Shine   5.14b 8c 33 X+ 33 E9 7b     Sport, 1 pitch, 40'   
    Browse More Classics in Primo Wall

    Featured Route For Primo Wall
    Dan Levison at the PS crux...photo by Darek Krol.

    Public Solitude 5.13 8a 29 X- 30 E7 6c  CO : Golden : ... : Primo Wall
    Climb the slab left of Sucking My Will to Live. It looks much easier than it is. Insecure and technical slopers and sidepulls lead to a bizarre final groove. This was redpointed by myself October, 2000 after the bolts were placed by a Golden local, Rich Purnell. ...[more]   Browse More Classics in CO

    Photos of Primo Wall Slideshow Add Photo
    The tyrolean is still in, 7/7/11.  It's a bit more work coming back.
    The tyrolean is still in, 7/7/11. It's a bit more...

    Comments on Primo Wall Add Comment
    Show which comments
    Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated May 2, 2014
    By Quinn Stevens
    From: Denver, CO
    Jul 27, 2001
    This comment is in response to Richard Wright's comment on Skimbleshanks in the Catslab. I thought it might be appropriate to place this nature of a comment on the area pages. I confer with RW. Be careful when climbing at the Catslab, Dog House, Primo Wall, and especially the Armory. Some people seem to enjoy shooting their guns in this area. Last summer two of my friend's tires were shot out with a 22 pistol while parked across from the Primo Wall. This 'attack' was unprovoked and was reported to the police. Be careful, and perhaps us climbers should consider getting law enforcement to actually do something about this situation.
    By Peter Beal
    From: Boulder Colorado
    Jul 30, 2001
    A few years back climbers were actually shot at while at the Nomad cave. Route 6 can be a fairly creepy road what with casinos, Kermit's, and I-70 one way and Denver and Golden the other. Imagine how different it would be without all the traffic.
    By Peter Beal
    From: Boulder Colorado
    Aug 28, 2001
    This refers to the Tyrolean that was up to access the Primo Wall (it's gone now.) Whoever put it up, thanks, but next time can you try to protect the trees that make it possible? Please use some padding or other material between the bark and rope. Otherwise it's more responsible to make the longer approach on foot.
    By Peter Beal
    From: Boulder Colorado
    Oct 1, 2001
    A couple of weekends ago we saw a whole family out for target practice across from the Primo Wall. Dad was wailing on a bullseye with a handgun while the kids watched. Then they packed up and got back in the minivan. Just a little Sunday fun.
    By Anonymous Coward
    Jun 13, 2002
    Just a question, who bolted and how hard is the "Squeeze Job" to the left of Sucking and the right of Public Solitude?

    Was just there today and couldn't believe another route was bolted there, it's kinda tough to call it an [independent] line when it climbs all over both routes!

    Just thought I would ask

    Have a good day and thanks for bolting it whoever did.
    By Peter Beal
    From: Boulder Colorado
    Jul 14, 2002
    This route is the work of Steve Damboise, and is less contrived than it appears, which may not be saying a lot. The hardest method consistently avoids Sucking's holds and the start and end are totally independent. It seems 5.13b or c depending on the rules you play by. The name is "Squeeze Play."
    By Anonymous Coward
    Jul 16, 2002
    Peter could you list the routes between Mirthmobile and Eternal Recurrance for me. How could there be a route between Sucking and Public Solitude when it says Public Solitude is to the left of Sucking? I have been to the cliff many times and the way I see it is: Mirthmobile, P.Solitude,Sucking,Shine,Unknown,Unknown,Primevil,Eternal Recurrance.What is the deal? Thanks
    By Peter Beal
    From: Boulder Colorado
    Jul 22, 2002
    Here's the list left to rightHale-Bopp 5.10+/11-, Mirthmobile 10-, Killer Pillar, 10, Public Solitude 13, Squeeze Play 13/13+, Sucking 12+, Grim Aura (LInk-up) 13+, Shine 13+, Primeval 13+, Eternal Recurrence 13+, City Slicker 12-, Suburban Cowgirls 11+, Flying Cowboys 12+, Breakfast Club 12-, Groan Up 11+, River Run 13, Movin Out 12

    Hope this helps
    By rich purnell
    Aug 7, 2002
    Anybody know anything about this "Ken Tanks" route FA, grade etc...
    By Anonymous Coward
    Aug 15, 2002
    Peter - sorry about the tree. I actually felt bad about the bark damage, but didn't notice till the tryolean was up. Looks like some tosser dismantled the traverse and made off with the gear, anyhow.
    By Tony Cappa
    Aug 25, 2002
    Does anybody know where the tyrolean went? Or if there is a good place to cross the river (other than when it's frozen over in the wintertime? I like the Primo Wall...
    By Anonymous Coward
    Sep 18, 2003
    The Tyrolean is downstream from the Nomad cave pretty much straight across from moving out and hangman. It sags pretty badly and should be avoided in the rain. BTW, My borther (Dan Miller), my roomate ( Rossin Richardson ) and myself (Craig Miller) were actually the ones who were shot at in the Primo cave. This episode went on for about 45 minutes back in 91 or 92 and ended with 7 Colorado State Patrol cars arresting the wacko perpatrator. At the time he had a mini 14 semi-automatic assault rifle with collapsible butt, scope ( he claimed he didn't see us), and 50 round banana clips, a loaded pistol in his pants, and a monster hunting knife. He took his first volley while I had just gotten off Predator and my brother and I felt the air move next to our heads ( we were 3-5 feet apart ). He then proceeded to shoot at us anytime we became visible for the next 45 minutes, including at Rossin while he being the only one with shoes bolted and barely made it around the cave exit towards the bridge before flagging down a car and calling for help.It looked like a movie but was a whole lot scarier watching the dirt and branches fly behind Rossin.In the end the guy got off with wreckless endangerment as there was no proof that he saw us, although from his vantage point near the now tyrolean it was pretty clear, and the fact that clear creek is a "free fire zone". The route now called Pro-Choice was originally called Bad Day Mining in psycho boy's honor......
    By Mark MacClary
    Mar 22, 2004
    Gear Alert
    Looks like the tyrolean traverse is down, I can't tell if it was cut or just washed out. Anyways I would be willing to provide rope, biners and whatever else is necessary to put it back up, but I need some help. Looking for anyone that would be willing to help and has the know how.Thanks
    By ac
    Mar 23, 2004
    Just wanted to comment that the hike in from upstream is not that bad. The tyrolean is often missing or rigged too loose so I've often opted for the hike.
    By Peter Beal
    From: Boulder Colorado
    Mar 28, 2004
    My recommendation is don't reinstall the Tyrolean. It isn't necessary and is in a place that makes it prone to being messed with. The trail is about 15 minutes and makes a good warm-up for the climbs. Plus the hike/scramble keeps the crowds down a little.
    By Anonymous Coward
    Mar 30, 2004
    Mark, I'll help set that tyrolean if you want. But, for the record, I don't have a problem with just pulling up my skivvies and wading across. The water only comes up to mid-thigh anyway (depending on your height; i'm 5'10").email me at runclimbplay@hotmail if you want.
    By cranshark
    Jun 25, 2004
    Please don't put up a tyrolean. The reason that it gets taken down is because it is an extreme hazard to kayakers. Please use the hike instead.
    By Darren Mabe
    From: Flagstaff, AZ
    Jun 25, 2004
    Then we putz ze tyrol higher. Wouldn't that just make more of a challenge for the kayakers? Kind of like climbing rock in the rain? Fun fun.
    By Tod Anderson
    Jun 29, 2004
    How can a tyrolean that installed high enogh to actually be usable to cross the stream be a hazard to kayakers? Are they standing on their kayaks & doing gymnastics? Steel cables seem to be the only answer to this problem. They're less visible & harder to cut with a knife. If it is kayakers, maybe we should do some more adventure kayak trundling from river wall.
    By cranshark
    Jun 30, 2004
    I'm not sure what the answer is or will be. Climbers have attracted the attention of BLM and there is growing concern. My recommendation is to keep a low profile. Climb, be safe, have fun. If you get hurt, make it look like a hiking accident!)
    By Richard M. Wright
    From: Lakewood, CO
    Jul 1, 2004
    I had an opportunity to ask some local kayakers if they had any concerns about the tyros. Thay all indicated that they hardly even noticed, let alone cared about, the ropes strung over the river. More likely may be the fly fishermen whose lines get caught. I've noticed that tyros over rough water tend to remain in place much longer than those over quiet water, consistent with the argument. This suggests that when planning the tyro either place it very high (as in the case of the new Mission Wall tyro) or aim for water that is not conducive to fishing. By the way, the steel cable that Bernard G. placed in the SSV was also chopped - so even a cable is not fail-safe, much better certainly, but not fail-safe.
    By micah stocker
    Oct 12, 2004
    As if anyone cares, but I recently replaced the Tyrol to get to Primo Wall. This morning while crossing it I found myself untangling a fishing line and lure from the rope. I think I should have put more thought into where I placed the tyrol. However, it is the first one I have ever put up, and it seemed like a good place for it. When you see fishermen doing there funky casts under the tyrol, just vibe them until they leave. Or let them know ahead of time about the overhead danger. Should none of these tactics work, and a line gets stuck in the tyrol, kindly zip out there and untangle it for them. The fishermen will still probly be pissed, but at least they might think twice about cutting the rope. Thank you.
    By ac
    Jul 25, 2005
    I'm looking for sun/shade beta on the Primo Wall and Crystal Tower. The description above says north facing, but these formations pretty clearly look SE facing in the guidebook. Also there are many comments on this page discussing climbing there in March, where a shady N-facing crag would be less than ideal. So, which is it? When are these crags in the shade and what direction do they face? Thanx...
    By chris deulen
    From: Merriam, Kansas
    Feb 20, 2006
    The Primo Wall faces east. Maybe a little south. But mostly east. Summer is primo for the Primo Wall, though it does get a little sun starting in February. The large ridge on the east side of the road keeps the sun away during the colder months. Find a warm day with no wind, and it's not too bad in the winter/spring. The trees also keep the sun out a bit. Good for summer, bad for winter.
    By Scott Hahn
    Mar 15, 2006
    Does anyone know why the tyro at/to the Primo Wall has been cut?
    By chris deulen
    From: Merriam, Kansas
    Apr 6, 2006
    I'm not quite sure, but it could have something to do with the county. My friend and I have put up 2 tyrols at the New River Wall, which is in JeffCo. The last one, he left with a note with his email in a zip-lock bag. JeffCo contacted him and said that: A. It's an eyesore (I personally disagree with this subjective argument) and B. It's a danger (i.e. someone who doesn't know what they're doing could come along, "play" on it and end up drowning or "getting hurt.") Personally, I don't mind the look of a tyrolean. They're actually pretty hard to see unless you know what you're looking for. As far as danger goes, people don't need help getting hurt. They seem to do a fine job just by themselves, regardless of whether it happens on a rope crossing a river or skipping rocks. Though the Primo Wall resides in Clear Creek County, I doubt they have different standards or are climber-friendly. Thus, the ignorance and inability to logically reason that reigns among those in authority prevails again. Although, it could just have been some random fisherman, though I find it odd that the rope was cut on the north side (climbing side) of the river...
    By Monty
    From: Golden, CO
    Jul 7, 2008
    Sweetness, tryol is safe again. Replaced the yellow rope with a 11.6 static line. Your ass doesn't skim the water anymore. The red one could probably be replaced soon, but that's way beyond my budget. I would definitely help someone replace it though.
    By Trevor Ackerman
    Sep 8, 2008
    So what's the secret to clipping into and out of a tyrolean traverse when there's nothing to stand on except the foot loops? I ended up not even using the foot loops because I just swing around wildly in them.
    By Darren Mabe
    From: Flagstaff, AZ
    Sep 8, 2008
    Trevor. One arm pull-up. Heel hook the line. Clip. Reverse to unclip.
    By Not So Famous Old Dude
    From: Denver, CO
    Nov 18, 2008
    Reversing that Tyrolean to come back to the car SUCKED with the force of a thousand black holes!!!!! I may go downstream next time and walk back up. If there even is a next time.
    By dj double-a
    Jun 20, 2009
    Found some draws in the talus today. I'd be glad to get them back to the owner who can ID them.
    By Keith H. North
    From: Englewood, CO
    Apr 13, 2011
    Just a heads up, yesterday I went to Primo and came back, got in the car found a tick on me :( also the week before one of my friends came home with a tick.

    I highly advise checking yourself for the little bastard bugs when you get to your car.
    By Stephen Nance
    From: Boulder, CO
    May 19, 2011
    There is another ledge to the right of Suburban Cowgirl. I cannot find these/this (might be only one) routes in any guid book.

    This route starts out on small crimps then throws to a ledge that is perhaps 3 feet long and angles up and left (very obvious). Get established and go up to terrible sidepulls in a seam or go out left to another slopey ledge.

    From there, it is a mantle to the anchors. The anchors look new and the bolts are pretty far apart from another. Seemed like a very hard move to the lip. It is only 3ish bolts, I think.

    What route is this?
    Any ideas?

    P.S.- the ticks ARE bad here. Both my partner and I found ticks on us.

    Thanks,

    Stephen
    By Jay Samuelson
    From: Denver CO
    May 20, 2011
    Hey Stephen, you were looking at Crying Flyboys.
    By Tzilla Rapdrilla
    Jul 29, 2011
    Euro mess.
    By Rob Eison
    From: Denver, CO
    Sep 17, 2011
    The upper rope sheath on the tyrolean has frayed and needs to be replaced. The lower rope is still intact, so the tyrolean is still functional, but it has become much more difficult to pull across because of the tattered sheath. I have plenty of cord to donate but not really the time to replace it right now. Any takers?
    By Luke Childers
    Oct 22, 2011
    Let's all give a shout out to the efforts of Jay and Kevin for fixing the Tyrol..!! That kinda work is difficulty and not exactly the funnest thing to do, but they really did a nice job and should be noted for there efforts!!!! So thxs, guys!! I appreciate your efforts and your time!!!!
    By Curt MacNeill
    From: Boulder, CO
    Oct 14, 2012
    It's sad that I have to even post this, but someone has been stealing draws off the lower portion of alot of routes as of Fall 2012. By the looks of it, it's some dumbass gumbie using a stick clip, since it's only the first bolt or two of the routes. Seriously, who wants old, junky quickdraws? Is there like an eBay business of selling old fixed draws that I don't know about? All I got to say is watch out, 'cause if I catch anyone doing this, they're gonna get a serious ass whooping. And oh yeah, I'm gonna replace all the draws stolen with bomber steel perma-draws, and I'm gonna use locktight. I'd like to see people get these babies off. C'mon, people.....
    By Mr. Nick
    Oct 26, 2012
    Curt,
    I have noticed this as well. I would not oppose any attempt to perma-draw some of these routes. I donated draws to Squeeze Play about two years ago after I was done with it, and most of them were gone last month, as well as one I left before the crux on Public Solitude. If I have the funds, I would be more than willing to pitch in for permanent draws in the next few months. Until then, I would recommend that everybody take off at least the first draw or two from their projects. Might not do much, but it is something.
    By Rob Eison
    From: Denver, CO
    Oct 27, 2012
    It's been going on since the spring and at least one person's been caught by Jay Samuelson already. Although I'm not generally an advocate of permadraws all over crags, this is getting ridiculous. If you leave any draws on the first 2 bolts on any of these routes, expect them to be pilfered in a week. I've accidentally forgotten to pull mine off the lower part of Shine when I've been in a hurry and a week later...Gone!

    If there's a consensus in the community to permadraw the classics here, I'll pony up some cash and gear to help out.

    mountainproject.com/v/draw-thi...
    By Tzilla Rapdrilla
    Oct 29, 2012
    Here's a reason why not to add fixed draws - nobody maintains them and they become hazards:

    rockandice.com/news/2301-fatal...
    By Peter Beal
    From: Boulder Colorado
    Oct 30, 2012
    Permadraws on a closely bolted 35-foot cliff seems over the top. This is not the Motherlode or Wicked Cave here. The cliff is not even very steep. FWIW I never left draws overnight on any of the projects I did here. It takes a few minutes to put them in bolt-to-bolt and only a little longer to clean.
    By Richard M. Wright
    From: Lakewood, CO
    Oct 30, 2012
    Tzilla's comment is right on target and underscores what any seasoned climber knows: top rope through your own gear and not through in situ rap anchors, and rap from an in situ station rather than lowering from the station. Both practices increase wear on the in situ gear, generate sharp edges, and increase the likelihood of cutting a rope - just as lowering from a permadraw. Increased traffic on a route like Sucking My Will only emphasizes the rationale for using one's own gear. Like Peter said, it's not that hard to get the gear up, and you guarantee its integrity.
    By Rob Eison
    From: Denver, CO
    Oct 31, 2012
    Excellent points of course. Those risks should be obvious even for the not-so-seasoned and I certainly agree. The unfortunate reality at Primo is that, for the 3 years since I moved back to Denver, draws have been a fairly permanent fixture on Sucking, Public Solitude, Ahine, Primeval, even Flying Cowboys. The New River Wall suffers simlarly. I don't know when the paradigm shifted, but this wasn't the case when I first started climbing here a decade ago. Sucking now has Climbtech steel permadraws because of the continual traffic it receives though it's unclear how that decision ultimately came about. Nor do I know whose draws have been donated on many of these routes, but I certainly have taken extra time to inspect their integrity as anyone should. Having climbed many years at a number of crags where permadraws are accepted such as Jailhouse, Rifle, Motherlode, etc., I understand the importance of the local community taking responsibility for the safety of any fixed gear and replacing any suspicious equipment. There are a handful of regular CCC climbers who make an effort as informal stewards replacing anchors and bolts, removing unsafe draws, etc.

    If the argument against fixed draws is motivated by a concern for the safety of other climbers, then the counter argument for steel permadraws on a high traffic crag with hard routes like Primo is not unreasonable and is arguably superior to the current excess tat. This discussion is ongoing among CCC regulars and has also been driven by both the unfortunate status quo of leaving draws on many routes and the frustration of the ongoing battle against draw thieves in the canyon.

    Personally I agree, hang your own draws and clean each time and you should be reassured. I've done that more often than not and will continue to do so. But I'll also admit that, with a full-time profession and 2 small kids, an extra 30 minutes not utilized repeatedly hanging and cleaning draws on the crux clips of a route like Shine is actually very precious to me. So I realize that I'm not completely innocent in these developments, but life is complicated isn't it?
    By Tzilla Rapdrilla
    Nov 2, 2012
    Rob, first thanks for taking the initiative to help out with some items in CCC, your efforts makes the area better for all of us. It appears that you are trying to address a condition arising from abandoned or intentionally donated fixed draws. It seems that there are three options for dealing with sub-par draws left on routes, they can be removed, left as is, or upgraded. For the last two options, these draws then become something that the climbing community needs to continually maintain.

    It seems to me that fondling the crabs on the fixies to make sure they havenít become knives takes more energy than just hanging your own draws on the way up. There are places that fixed draws do make sense, like the Motherlode, but the Motherlode is a wee bit steeper than Primo. Also, the Red has an active and extensive stewardship community that is actively addressing the fixed gear issues.

    Finally, there is the visual impact associated with fixed draws. Primo is actually on private land, and it may be in our best interest to keep our presence as low key as possible.
    By Jay Samuelson
    From: Denver CO
    May 13, 2013
    I added a static line to the tyrol yesterday which seemed to help a bit. It needs to be tensioned down a bit more as I didn't have my ascender with me, but it definitely helped. Could probably cut down one of the old lines as well.
    By Monty
    From: Golden, CO
    May 13, 2013
    Thanks for all or your community service, Jay!
    By mlauwers
    Jul 11, 2013
    Made our first visit to Primo Wall and had a great day of climbing. The area with the climbs is spectacular with an awesome surrounding. The hike back towards the climbing area though is pretty sketchy at a couple parts. There are a couple ropes tied in to help up/down at the steeper parts. I suggest the tyrolean!! (Thanks to those who put that in and keep it in good repair.)
    By Rob Eison
    From: Denver, CO
    May 2, 2014
    A pile of quickdraws and a daisy chain have been under Hangman for the past few weeks. I have them now. So if they're yours, pm and me and describe them and I'll get them back to you.