Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
Please Critique
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 1 of 1.  
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
 
By Gilles
From Arcata,CA
Mar 23, 2012
Suicide Rock
So I've been trad climbing for about a year now and have mainly done single pitch climbs where I have only needed to build anchors focusing on a downward pull, but I have also been on multi-pitch climbs where there were bolted anchors. Within the next few months I have my eyes set on some climbs that require gear anchors, so I have been practicing on the ground and would like to know if you guys could let me know how it's looking. Thanks guys, I usually have a crusty old stonemaster to ask, but he is not around for the moment.

How's this?
How's this?


This?
This?


standard downward pull anchor
standard downward pull anchor


Also standard?
Also standard?

FLAG
By Nathan Stokes
Mar 23, 2012
On the last photo, is what looks like a flake, well adhered? And are you wrapping a set of C4's around the edge of the flake for 2 out of the three pieces? Is the system tight enough that the upward piece won't allow the top pieces to get shock loaded in an upward pull situation?

In picture one, any reason for not equalizing with a Cordalette? Nothing wrong with tieing in with the rope directly, just requires more care in equalizing. On that subject, where is the load strand in the picture? I see you have the tie in point on your harness clove hitched to one piece, a loop with a clove hitch to the second and third, clipped in with a locker to your loop. The way I was taught for tieing in with the rope was to tread the rope like a cordalette (sort of) and clove hitch to each piece with a large loop in between, then tie the loops off in the standard fashion with a figure eight (or overhand if you like it spicy) and clip in to the master point and top shelf respectively. Once you get a master point you then tie yourself into the master point like you normally would (requires a bit of a tail between your tie in and the "first piece")

FLAG
By Leeroy
Mar 23, 2012
The only issue I see with any of those anchors is that you used both of the #1's that you brought with you on the climb and you're partner is gonna freak at the 20 ft of thin hands on the next pitch!

Other than that, all those anchors look text book bomber! I'd climb on any of them.

FLAG
By Nathan Stokes
Mar 23, 2012
Leeroy Jenkins wrote:
The only issue I see with any of those anchors is that you used both of the #1's that you brought with you on the climb and you're partner is gonna freak at the 20 ft of thin hands on the next pitch! Other than that, all those anchors look text book bomber! I'd climb on any of them.


And the .75 too. Those are the pieces I rarely have when I reach the belay stance, so my anchors are much more "creative"

FLAG
By T.Dailey
From Avon
Mar 23, 2012
Morning #1 of 25
If the flake was/is questionable best not put all your expanding eggs in one basket behind it. You could put something in the crack on the right, thus eliminating at least one cam kink factor.

FLAG
By matt davies
Mar 23, 2012
I'd be pretty psyched to climb up to any of those anchors, good job!
Some miscellaneous crap- I always prefer to use bomb stoppers in anchors wherever I can, saves cams for the next lead.
I like to use at least one locker (usually on the piece I feel is the most bomb-proof) in my anchors, besides the master point, which always gets a locker. If the anchor is hanging in space like the pictures, it's no big deal, but if I can forsee potential contact with the rock, then the locker (or two opposite and opposed non-lockers) becomes more of an issue, and maybe warranted on more than one piece.
It looks like you did this in the photos, but when using cloves, extra extra style points for putting the weight bearing strand closest to the spine of the biner.

FLAG
By Mark Mueller
From Flagstaff, AZ
Mar 23, 2012
Great quality rock on this one!
Nice.

FLAG
By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Mar 24, 2012
My navigator keeps me from getting lost
In your first pic, it appears as though the master point is linked to only two points of the anchor. Is that a fatal, 'you're gonna die' flaw? Eh, maybe not. But, to add a bit more security, you could work that third piece of pro into the master point pretty easily.

I could spend a bit of time and take up a lot of space to describe how. But, why do that when Eli made a video:

climbinglife.com/rock-anchorin...

FLAG
 
By Kevin Chuba
From Salt Lake City, UT
Mar 24, 2012
There it is
Nice job,

I normally like my tie in knot to be closer to the belay loop with a back up fishermans.

FLAG
By EB
From Winona
Mar 24, 2012
Dito what many others said regarding using cams for the anchor. Try to assess the next pitch for needed gear and use other pieces for the belay if possible. In, addition using the rope for the anchor is ok, but if for some reason your partner cant send the next pitch and you have to take over, you wil have some serious time loss on that transfer. Using a cordalette or long sling( I carry an 8 ft sewn sling from bd). In your pictures your anchors are all pre-equalized which means they will only share a load when pulled in that exact direction(unlikely) for a stronger anchor use a self equalizing system such as a sliding x with limiting knots, this will distribute the load more evenly to each piece and make a stronger anchor.
Last, regarding the last comment regrading the figure 8 knot, it is self sufficient and does't need a "back -up knot. Actually in pull tests the figure 8 is at full strength before passing it through the last loop when finishing it(not that one would ever not finish the knot...)
In all, good work bro!

FLAG
By climber73
From Fort Collins, CO
Mar 24, 2012
Belaying at Ouray
Anchors look solid. I would climb with you any time.

That said, just keep in mind that you may need to escape the belay for rescue of a team member or yourself. When you use a cordalette (or something other than the rope that you're tied into) it makes escaping the belay easier, and also keeps your end of the rope free for any rescue type stuff you may need to do with it.

I agree on saving gear for the leader of the next pitch. Use passive gear when possible & when it's bomb-proof.

FLAG
By Larry S
Mar 24, 2012
The wife and I road-trippin on the Connie.
They all look good to me so long as that feature is solid. I usually just go for the cordolette unless the anchor really lends itself to tying it together with the rope - I'm usually carrying it anyways if i'm on multipitch. There's alot going on in #1 and if you end up not liking your position it's not possible to extend it. Since every piece you placed in each anchor is a cam, they should be fine for an upward. I usually try and be more creative with the anchor gear though so as to not use all the cams the second is going to want for the next pitch, especially not all the cams of a particular size.

For a simplified version of #1, use a 2' sling and make a sliding x between two of the pieces, then use a "bunny ears" (double figure 8) or a "bowline on a bight" to clip the X and the remaining piece, it's much easier to setup.

FLAG
By Leeroy
Mar 24, 2012
There is absolutely nothing wrong with using the rope for the belay and it won't "cost you a bunch of extra time" when you have to switch leads. Rope only anchors only seem complicated to those that don't know how to build them. Just keep doing what you're doing.

As far as having rope left over for a rescue...well perhaps you should keep a chopper on standby "just in case" and make sure you've got you're 10 essentials every time you leave your house. It's a dangerous world out there. Emergency parachute packs could come in handy as well if a quick descent is needed.

FLAG
By Gilles
From Arcata,CA
Mar 24, 2012
Suicide Rock
Great! Thank you guys, this is inspiring some confidence. I do seem to lean towards the cordelette method since I can set it up faster at this juncture of my anchor building. The only thing I'm having a hard time with is how to shorten the cordelette if it's too long for the belay stance I'm at? How do I shorten it?

FLAG
By Greg D
From Here
Mar 24, 2012
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
Nathan Stokes wrote:
Is the system tight enough that the upward piece won't allow the top pieces to get shock loaded in an upward pull situation?


Shock loaded in the upward direction?! I thought the "shock loading" phrase was beat to a pulp before, but you took it to new heights. Congrats.

FLAG
By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Mar 24, 2012
tanuki
Gilles. First of all the anchors look fine. I have set and been belayed off FAR worse. There are some good comments above that cover most of the opportunities for improvement that I see.

As far as using the rope vs cordelette, both have some advantages and disadvantages. I used to use the cordelette a lot. Not so much any more. For a party of two that are swapping leads, it is really hard to beat using the rope. I am sure that someone will point out issues with escaping the belay or the amount of rope used reducing you ability to climb rope stretching pitches. However, I have never had an issue with those things and doubt that most folks ever will. My point here is that using the rope is "good."

FLAG
 
By rogerbenton
Mar 24, 2012
Whoever this guy is, he's just plain irresponsible...
crag dweller, thanks for that vid link. that was helpful to me.

FLAG
By matt davies
Mar 24, 2012
Gilles wrote:
Great! Thank you guys, this is inspiring some confidence. I do seem to lean towards the cordelette method since I can set it up faster at this juncture of my anchor building. The only thing I'm having a hard time with is how to shorten the cordelette if it's too long for the belay stance I'm at? How do I shorten it?

A few options for shortening the cordelette: don't pre-tie it in a loop, carry one untied, then you can use an EKD (European Death Knot, aka overhand) or figure eight to make it the length you want for your anchor.
If that's not your thing, you can use the "figure 11" at your master point, which is just a figure eight with many extra wraps around the body of the knot before you tuck the last bit of loop through the bottom to form the clipping point, to suck up the excess length you don't want. (It looks like you used this method in one of the anchor pictures already)
Optimally, try make your anchors higher than your belay stance. Look for gear placements slightly above head-level. The ideal place for your master point is about chest level, so then you won't have to shorten your cordelette.

FLAG
By Simon Hatfield
From Oakland, CA
Mar 24, 2012
Me placing a cam at the crux - photo courtesy G. H...
The only thing I'm having a hard time with is how to shorten the cordelette if it's too long for the belay stance I'm at? How do I shorten it?

A great way to shorten that cordelette is to clip a bight to one piece instead of a strand, then pull the bight through and incorporate it into the masterpoint, effectively doubling the amount of cord used for that piece. That will have the effect of shortening your masterpoint, but the risk is that by doing so, you increase the maximum internal angle of the anchor, potentially exposing your gear to multiplied forces. A good rule of thumb is to always keep that maximum internal angle under 90š - and less is better.

The cordelette is definitely my favorite anchor tool, although I'll often just use the rope on the top out pitch. I really like that it allows you a good selection of clip in points (shelf and masterpoint) which keeps the belay organized and efficient. Another advantage is that it doesn't force you to untie in order to have one partner lead 2 pitches in a row.

FLAG
By Greg D
From Here
Mar 24, 2012
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
In all seriousness, since you are looking for critique, the top one is the better of the two "rope" anchors. But, to improve without any extra gear would be the sequence in which you tie in giving a slightly different result. I call it the UV because of the shape and sequence. So, in your top photo:

Go from waist to top piece and clove as you did.
Then clove to middle piece leaving a "U" between the two pieces.
Then to a locker on your belay loop. (don't bother clipping leg and waist loop as you did).
Then up to the bottom (third) piece making a "V".

Now you can make an overhand at the bottom of the "U" to hang an autoblock from two pieces. You can easily incorporate the third piece if you wish.

FLAG
By Jim Titt
From Germany
Mar 25, 2012
Greg D wrote:
In all seriousness, since you are looking for critique, the top one is the better of the two "rope" anchors. But, to improve without any extra gear would be the sequence in which you tie in giving a slightly different result. I call it the UV because of the shape and sequence. So, in your top photo: Go from waist to top piece and clove as you did. Then clove to middle piece leaving a "U" between the two pieces. Then to a locker on your belay loop. (don't bother clipping leg and waist loop as you did). Then up to the bottom (third) piece making a "V". Now you can make an overhand at the bottom of the "U" to hang an autoblock from two pieces. You can easily incorporate the third piece if you wish.


Thatīs the way Iīd do it as well, and everyone I know. I wouldnīt bother with the locker on the belay loop though, just tie in with a bight of the rope with a round turn and two half-hitches as thatīs the way it was always done (the modern trend is with a re-threaded 8 but this strikes me as slow and horrible).

FLAG
By Greg D
From Here
Mar 25, 2012
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
Jim Titt wrote:
Thatīs the way Iīd do it as well, and everyone I know. I wouldnīt bother with the locker on the belay loop though, just tie in with a bight of the rope with a round turn and two half-hitches as thatīs the way it was always done (the modern trend is with a re-threaded 8 but this strikes me as slow and horrible).


Not sure what you mean. How about a photo?

FLAG
By Jim Titt
From Germany
Mar 25, 2012
Greg D wrote:
Not sure what you mean. How about a photo?


Just Google round turn and two half hitches but youīll only see the single version, make it with a bight (looop) of the rope coming down from your second piece so its double strand throughout. I tie it through the rope loop formed by tying in to leave the belay loop uncluttered. The spare strand goes to your third piece.
Or get an older climbing textbook (pre-harnesses) and it will show you.
Or ask an older climber or a sailor!

FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 1.