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Placing gear on sport (bolted) route = negative style?
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Sep 16, 2013
...
"
If I want to put gear in every 4' I damn well will. And if someone doesn't like it or has something to say about it, they can walk to another section of the cliff dude. Climb for you. F#$% everyone elses opinions.."



ExFUCKINGactly!
Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Joined Oct 13, 2002
2,381 points
Sep 16, 2013
Why in the hell is there a bolt that close to a crack like that?

...probably because the entire crag was 'chipped' by the railroad.
chuffnugget
From Bolder, CO
Joined Sep 14, 2011
22 points
Administrator
Sep 16, 2013
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.
John Wilder wrote:
only thing to consider here is the distance to the 4th bolt from the cam. As mentioned above, you should be clipping at your waist- if you cannot, then the equipper set the route up wrong and i'd definitely place the cam (or go in direct and hang a double draw on the 3rd bolt so i can clip below and then again, or maybe just a long draw, depending on the scenario, then lower off and go for the red point). I've got a project in Red Rock that I'll probably use gear on to mitigate a monster whip at the top of the route- I think the equipper botched the bolting job on it and it should have another bolt, but there is a horizontal there for gear, so i'll probably use it- at least while i'm working the route. Maybe not when I go for the redpoint. We'll see. More often, though, if there's a bolt that's just a bit out of reach, i'll pre-hang a long or double draw on my first burn either while climbing or with a stick clip (after going in direct if i need to be on the route), so i can clip from one stance and then again at the bolt, depending.


i think it totally depends. i usually prefer routes where you clip at head height from good stances. if you are on a ledge or other potential ankle breaker, it is nice to have the first one pretty high. i kind of find clipping at my waist awkward on my wrist for some reason.
slim
Joined Dec 1, 2004
2,043 points
Sep 16, 2013
The bolt may be there for a reason other than simple overbolting - some crags have bolts close to 'protectable' features due to fragile or suspect rock. Plug the cam if it makes you feel safer -- I can't see why anyone would take issue with adding redundant, removable protection.

Better yet, use a telescoping rod to plug your cam from the ground. Then, start a thread debating the ethics of using a stick to pre-place gear.
BrianWS
Joined Apr 22, 2010
727 points
Sep 16, 2013
Just in case the two big belay anchors aren't obvi...
csproul wrote:
the only difference is that you end up lower (since you started lower) if you clip above your head. This is only a consideration if there is something to hit on the way down.


Like the ground? :-)
Peter Jackson
From Rumney, NH
Joined Aug 9, 2010
589 points
Sep 16, 2013
csproul wrote:
Utterly untrue. Safe clipping can occur anywhere you have the best stance and can reach the draw...above your head, at your waist, or even below your waist. The fall length is the same whether you clip above your head or if you clip the bolt at your waist, the only difference is that you end up lower (since you started lower) if you clip above your head. This is only a consideration if there is something to hit on the way down.


This is only true if you make the clip, dude. If you blow the clip with the slack you've pulled out, the fall is absolutely further if you clip above your head.

That said, there are of course individual circumstances that dictate when/where you clip- and i have definitely clipped above my head, but I much prefer clipping at chest/waist level.
John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 1, 2004
2,393 points
Sep 16, 2013
John - csproul is technically correct even if you blow the clip....however the OP did state that the ground (as Peter pointed out) is the main issue with the case in point. Mark Pilate
Joined Jun 25, 2013
11 points
Sep 16, 2013
Which way again?
^^^^^^ This whole discussion blows my mind. Name-calling, satire, sarcasm, and full-on mockery all present themselves as options, but I think the most amusing option is to rack up and go put up a new climb that someone who posed (irony) questions and responses such as the above simply aren't up to.

Enjoy being what you are, boys/girls.
Cunning Linguist
Joined Feb 15, 2007
2,478 points
Sep 16, 2013
the '90s called, they want their bolt-gun back Buff Johnson
Joined Dec 19, 2005
1,494 points
Sep 16, 2013
If you can place a #4 cam a foot below 3rd bolt, why not just clip the bolt out of the jug required to place a #4 cam in? If you can put a #4 cam in there, I would speculate it would accomodate yarding off of to clip a bolt that is only a foot above it? doug rouse
From Denver, CO.
Joined Apr 15, 2008
731 points
Sep 16, 2013
I agree that you should clip from the safest spot, whether that be at waist or above your head. However, can someone explain how you have the same amount of rope out when clipping above you that you do when clipping at your waist. Every way I look at this, if you fall with an extra 6' of rope out above your tie in you're going for a longer ride.

jeb
jeb013
From Portland
Joined Jul 31, 2012
14 points
Sep 16, 2013
"Ragin Cajun" 5.12c Jackson Falls, So Il...
You realize of course that placing a bolt is an arbitrary decision by the the person who equipped the route, which might or might not have been where you would have placed the bolt, further it was no doubt placed on rappel, it could be spot on or completely jacked, as long as you FREE the route its a send in my book. Look at the plethora of videos of the "pros" and you'll see doubled quick draws in many of them. jhn payne
Joined Oct 27, 2009
54 points
Sep 16, 2013
jeb013 wrote:
I agree that you should clip from the safest spot, whether that be at waist or above your head. However, can someone explain how you have the same amount of rope out when clipping above you that you do when clipping at your waist. Every way I look at this, if you fall with an extra 6' of rope out above your tie in you're going for a longer ride. jeb


Assume bolt A to bolt B is 10 feet. You clip A, climb to B, attempting to clip at your waist you fall. You had 10 feet of rope out when you fell. The length of the fall is 20 feet. Agreed?

Now you clip A, climb 5 feet towards B, pull out an additional 5 feet of slack - you now have 15 feet out - and fall. How far? If you think the answer if 30 feet you are wrong - it's still 20. In the first case you end up 10 feet below A, in the 2nd you are 15 feet below. If the ground is 12 feet below - oopsie...

But it is an urban legend that falls are shorter if you clip at your waist. Cip from the best holds.
Eric Engberg
Joined Apr 28, 2009
2 points
Sep 16, 2013
IMO this is a worthless question or concern! Why do you or anyone else for that matter care about how you climb a clip up anyway? JPVallone
Joined Aug 25, 2004
204 points
Sep 16, 2013
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008
So let me see,,,if the person is offended on the trad gear placed on sports, a sport 'purist' I guess, then I suppose they would also be very against mixed rock/ice routes too. Don't touch that tool to the rock, it's ice and ice only for a real ice climb, right? Screws only, no ice bolts , no bolted 80 ft overhanging rocks leading out to 25 ft. of icicle for the finish. Cripes,,,,if I'm on a hairy sport route where they chose to put bolts 16 ft apart and I see a nice fat crack, I'm tossing in a cam or nut any time I feel like protecting my ass on the route. Woodchuck ATC
Joined Nov 29, 2007
3,091 points
Sep 16, 2013
tanuki
This tread makes my head hurt.

PLEASE, climb however you want to! Put your dick in the crack if it makes you feel good. I won't judge you... as long as you clean up after yourself. It is climbing. it is supposed to be a positive thing. We are not curing cancer.
NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Joined Dec 6, 2009
121 points
Sep 16, 2013
I hope young Andrew Massey is paying attention...his science fair project is practically writing itself here...

In addition to a few extra candidates for the MMPI (Sir Chips - take your dick out of your mouth and have your Mom grab you a juice box) Andrew could explore the psychology of those that take the time to post while denigrating the OP, the thread, all posters in general, or all of the above....

Seems that if you actually read the OP, he included the disclaimer that he was merely interested in honest opinions and would ultimately do what he thought best....what a Wackjob, asking for climbing opinions on an internet climbing forum. Let's just stick to the WEIGHTY issues, huh?
Mark Pilate
Joined Jun 25, 2013
11 points
Sep 16, 2013
Tom on Cloud Peak, Bighorn Mtns, WY.  Blacktooth a...
The Stoned Master,
I think protecting against a ground fall, by any fair means, is smart. And especially so if the route is near your limit.
Tommy Layback
From Sheridan, WY
Joined Jan 7, 2011
111 points
Sep 16, 2013
Do it in proper style. Skip the bolts, just bring the cam. Place some other marginal gear if its there, when in doubt run it out.

!!!YUR GONNA DIE!!! (someday)

Or clip the bolts and place the cam for your mother. Honestly, who cares, no one but you is climbing this thing, no one but you should dictate the fashion you go about doing it. Only two things matter anyways; the fun you have and arriving at the ground at less than terminal velocity.
hrdeyo
From Longmont, CO
Joined Oct 19, 2010
0 points
Sep 16, 2013
OTL
What if you cinch a nut over a hangerless bolt? Is that + or - style points?

Oh no, I think I've used 'trad draws' on sport routes!!! Damn, there goes my steezy points.
Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Joined Oct 20, 2010
368 points
Sep 16, 2013
Which way again?
^^^That's pretty funny. Got that route put up, guys. It's fun AND R/X, but is it invalid since I didn't wear man pros and bring a Kleenex box for my salty tears?

Just out: Forum Diapers, for the Woefully Underinformed and Overopinionated. Available in all sizes except Impressive.
Cunning Linguist
Joined Feb 15, 2007
2,478 points
Sep 16, 2013
^^^ See? now that was mildly amusing....juice box works every time Mark Pilate
Joined Jun 25, 2013
11 points
Administrator
Sep 17, 2013
Day Lily.
You guys definitly make work/life more interesting. Its amazing how animated some of you get! I simply asked for your OPINION (opinion = no right or wrong) and it turned into a rugby scrum!

I wonder why some of you find it to be an issue that I am interested in others opinions? Im a human and someone who has/is developing new routes/areas on public property (public = everyones, not mine). Yes I am interested in others opinions, I am not held prisoner by your opinions but learn from them and consider them when making decisions as I must share this planet with you all.

I enjoy learning/knowing what your opinions are. Thanks for sharing.
The Stoned Master
From Pennsylvania
Joined Dec 5, 2012
3,666 points
Sep 17, 2013
So..Can you make the clip from the Camalot slot or not? doug rouse
From Denver, CO.
Joined Apr 15, 2008
731 points
Administrator
Sep 17, 2013
Day Lily.
Yes Doug, that is not a problem (not a problem = not in ground fall territory). I am going to place that cam next time Im there.

Thank you.
The Stoned Master
From Pennsylvania
Joined Dec 5, 2012
3,666 points


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