I've used both the Sterling Chain Reactor and Metolius PAS as a personal "leash" for connecting to an anchor while setting up rappel or top-rope -- some people like to call these "anchor chains". But now I'm seeing some manufacturers claiming that I could also use it in constructing a 2-point
equalizing anchor (like for multi-pitch leads or top-roping).

Anybody tried this?

Seems like if you just let it hang down in a V shape between two anchor protection points, and clip it into the lowest-hanging loop as a "masterpoint", you (often) get some kind of equalization, since the clipping carabiner can slide from side to side within that single loop.

Extension is limited, since if one of the two anchor points fails, the carabiner only slips as far as the end of its single loop.

Are there any special risks for me incorporating this into constructing an anchor?
(presumably also with a separate connection to at least least one more protection point for further redundancy)?

Special situations where incorporating an "anchor chain" might be inadvisable? (or especially useful?)

Whst to do if the lowest point on the V is at the intersection of two loops? so the obvious clip down not offer any equializing sliding?
- (leaving aside the issue of whether true dynamic Equalization actually matters in 99.99% of multi-pitch trad anchor situations).

I'm thinking that since I carry a Stirling Chain Reactor with me anyway when I climb - so why not get some additional use from it (and maybe skip carrying the extra weight of a cordelette for situations where I'm leading multiple pitches in succession instead of trading leads).

Ken

I do it with bolts, sometimes I'll use it for a quick seconding rig for ice, but haven't done it with trad gear. Usually rope or cord.

They sell 2 different products.

PAS - www.metoliusclimbing.com/pas_personal_anchor_system.html

Anchor Chain - www.metoliusclimbing.com/anchor-chain.html

Yes, and they claim that both products could be useful for making Equalizing anchors.
So do you experience or ideas for doing that with either one?

Stirling Chain Reactor also comes in a Pro version, with the long loop on one end as a double sling. So while we're touching on multiple product models ...
When I use my usual non-Pro Stirling as a personal "leash" for connecting to the anchor to set up a rappel/abseil, I have that long end connected by a girth-hitch to my harness. Doens't seem like having a double-strand helps for that. So ...

Any ideas on that second strand of the big end loop might be useful for?

Ken

Nope, I don't own either. But those both pretty expensive. Just use draws or slings. I have a long draw with a locker on each side that I use for TR's and then just a normal draw on the other bolt.

As Metolious say, they are for equalising anchors NOT dynamically equalising. They will never provide any dynamic equalisation unless you clip them tight between the two anchor points.
An expensive, heavy, awkward to carry way to do a simple job without the versatility of a couple of cheap slings.

If you were to clip only one of the loops, then your system wouldn't be redundant (loop cuts and you're done). While I realize this is highly unlikely, I thought I should point it out.

The thing I don't like about it is you're clipped to one loop so there's no redundancy. I guess you could clip 2 separate loops but I think that would get cluttered/tangled quick. Maybe I'm misunderstanding how it's used.

I'm not an expert on anchors, but I thought the usual concern for redundancy was that one of the protection points might fail.
I guess that concern is because I don't have full control over those points. If it's a trad anchor, then I'm always sort of "making do" with whatever rock features I happen to find around my chose anchor location. If it's a bolt anchor, then I don't know the history of each bolt and I can't look "inside" the rock to verify the connection of the threads.

But with pieces of gear I brought along myself, I do know the history of each single piece, and to some extent I can visually verify its current fitness (e.g. check nylon for fraying, carabiner metal for fatigue cracks).

So for myself personally, I trust my life to a single piece of my own well-chosen well-cared-for gear all the time. Like every time I rappel I trust my life to a single loop of nylon fibers (my belay loop) and a single piece of metal (locking carabiner).

So from my perspective, how is trusting a single (well-selected) nylon loop of my Sterling Chain reactor when constructing a belay anchor so different from my trusting a single nylon loop when rappeling?

Ken

I have a question about attaching yourself to an anchor- I never even knew these Personal Anchor Systems existed until recently, but the way I have always connected myself to anchors has been by two dyneema slings either girth hitched or threaded (depending on how much length I need) through both belay loops and connected to the anchor with non locking carabiners. Is this unsafe?

When setting up a top rope on two bolts I prefer to use cord or rope as it has a sheath that was designed for abrasion resistance. The webbing found on the sterling chain reactor and other personal anchor systems "PAS" do not have a sheath. Pony up the extra few bucks and get some cord or rope.

My ideal setup is a pre-rigged quad for sport climbing.

For longer top rope setups where the anchors are natural or not close together I prefer to use 11mm static rope.

Never have an anchor rely on one loop of webbing. That's asking for trouble. Always have redundancy in your anchor setups!

It kind of seems like reinventing the wheel.

For most sport anchors I tie in with the rope (to always stay on belay) and just to make myself happy I'll probably also initially clip in with a sling and locker.

I have a PAS and I use it from time to time as it's nice to make the quick length adjustments, but really I barely use it.

IMO I'd rather bring something for an anchor that I can use for other things: Cordelette, double length runner with 3 lockers, quick draws or I have two QD's set up with 4 small lockers. That last one is probably what I use on single pitch anchors the most when its an up and down shot.

I honestly can't remember the last time I even brought my PAS out.

Oh and just a thought, instead of two slings to tie in IMO always use the rope as one tie in point. That way you NEVER drop the rope. haha it would SUCK being safely tied into anchors with no rope.

I have a PAS that I use to anchor in when cleaning single pitch sport climbs. Looking back, a single sling would do the trick but I bought a PAS early in my climbing career and figure I might as well use it.

I wouldn't seek it out for anchor building. If its all you have on your rack, seems like it would work. I usually use two draws or a double length sling for sport anchors. I do tend to favor dynamic equalization for trad anchors, but not for bolts... go figure.

just use a quickdraw

I personally really like using my PAS (sterling chain reactor), and use it just about every time I go out climbing. For cleaning sport routes, I've used girthed slings and even other adjustable tethers, such as a purcell prussik tied out of cord, but still prefer the chain reactor. It's rather easy to go in with two loops using two lockers for added redundancy, and it really shines when doing rappels and needing a quick attachment to the anchor. I even like to use it in multi-pitch trad settings -- clove into your best/first piece (assuming not building rope anchor), build an anchor, and then use the chain reactor and clip to the shelf or master point of a cordalette.

Though I agree it's not a necessary piece of equipment, at ~$20 it's not really that expensive, rated for 3 factor 2 falls (totally bomber), and makes adjustability a breeze. I wouldn't use it to equalize anchors though, as OP is suggesting.