In September 2010 the BLM put out a
press release
asking for public comment about more than doubling the camping fee at Penitente Canyon. Media coverage did not extend beyond the San Luis Valley, and the deadline for comments was December 1st. Did the climbing community know about this? The proposal details are hard to find on the BLM website (impossible, actually. They are only posted at a rather obscure corner of a Forest Service website), so I've posted them at the Western Slope No-Fee Coalition site:
Penitente and Shelf Road Fee Increases

Note that the financial details and business plan were not published until after the comment deadline had passed. Based on their own financials, BLM is just about breaking even at Penitente at current rates.

I would like to know what climbers who use the area have to say about this.

That sounds like a bad deal to me. Climbers got along just fine there for years with no fancy campgrounds and no fees. I camp elsewhere now to avoid the fees.

In the early 90s the area was being destroyed given the number of users . . . people kept pushing further into the canyon to camp and had essentially made a parking lot out of the base area of Nature of the Beast/Mysterious Redhead. Weekends and Wednesdays were out of control . . . not saying I wasn't a part of the problem - but the BLM, for all of the signs, rope fences, and barriers, has done a good job mitigating some of the damage.

Am I correctly hearing that climbers are just resigned to fee increases and don't want to get involved?

All increases have to be approved by a citizen advisory committee, and that committee is obligated by federal law to determine that there is documentation of "general public support" before they recommend approval.

The agencies go through the motions (in this case a press release that did not get published beyond the San Luis Valley) rather than really trying to obtain support. In this case the BLM claims "general public support" based on verbal comments from five people and one written commenter who said $11.00 was too high. Yet they say the campground got over 1,800 overnight visitors in 2010, "almost solely rock climbers from outside the commuting area."

So what I want to know is, did climbers not know about this increase (meaning the BLM did not do enough outreach and it can be denied by the advisory committee on that basis) or do they not care (in which case it will most certainly get approved).

The advisory committee meeting date has not been set yet. I will post it here as soon as it is.

EDIT***
Sorry, I realized that this link was a thread you started. so, you must be aware of it. This fee increase is going on two plus years in the talking. How long is this going to drag on?

What was the fee last time someone went to Shelf? Still 4 bucks?

-Jon
www.mountainproject.com/v/colorado__rocky_mountain_region/fe>>>

There hasn't been a fee increase at Penitente since 1997...incredible! The BLM had improvements slated for the campground two years in a row but were unable to move forward because of money. The area needs work. Flash floods damaged the road into the campground late last summer. Invasive weeds are a problem throughout the campground as well. If peeps need to camp for free there is ample BLM land closeby. FYI...the canyon is also used by hikers and mountain bikers. Yes, the press release was posted locally in a timely manner...even I saw it by chance in a neighboring BLM office. As a climber and local resident, I realize sharing the news of this proposal would have been helpful to others who may have wanted to comment... hindsight is 20/20. I do believe the extra money will help the campground and roadway be better maintained and cared for by the BLM.

Is this fee just for the camping ?

From $5 to $11. Wow, that is absurd.

Yes, that's a huge increase, but look at a map and you'll find that free camping in Colorado outnumbers pay camping. Get the Colorado Recreational Road Atlas and go have a ball. In fact, Penitente canyon borders on Rio Grande National Forest. Leave it like you found it, and camp for free.

Sometimes you have to pay to be close to what you want. Camping in RMNP is $20/site/night.

Yup, and another $20 for the entrance fee. Last time I visited Yosemite NP, entry was $25.

I am willing to pay a bit more in camping fees to help out with maintenence and conservation of the area, however an additional $6/night seems steep.

There is good rock climbing to be found further west in the Creede area, contact me if you're interested.

The bottom line is that the BLM breaks even (actually a small profit) at Penitente.

So, a brief visitor survey.

How much should the BLM increase the fees, if at all?

Does Penitente lack any amenities that are important to you, and how much extra would you be willing to pay for them per night?

Thanks for sharing!

In the Federal Register for today, December 13, 2011 the meeting notice appeared for the advisory committee that will be deciding on the fee increases for camping at Shelf Road and Penitente. Read the notice at
THIS LINK
The meeting will be on January 18 in Canon City. I will be forwarding to the committee members all the public comments made in 2009 about Shelf Road that we obtained under Freedom of Information.

BLM got essentially NO comments about raising the fee at Penitente from $5 to $11.

If you have any last minute comments you can send them to the BLM coordinator Denise Adamic at dadamic@blm.gov Be sure to explicitly request that she forward your message to each committee member before the meeting.

The proposals are not currently available on any BLM website that I can find, but they are cached at the Western Slope No-Fee Coalition site at
THIS LINK

To sum up:
Both campgrounds have a history of breaking even financially (or even a slight profit) at the current camping rates.
Shelf Road was originally proposed to increase from $4 to $10. The most recent proposal reduced that to $7.
Penitente is proposed to increase from $5 to $11.

These increases are going to happen unless the people who use these two campgrounds (i.e. climbers) express strong opposition. If you care about this don't sit this one out. Send your comment to Ms. Adamic.

Update: The agenda for the January 18 meeting in Canon City, as well as all the proposal documents, have been posted by BLM at

THIS LINK

First glance it looks pretty much exactly the same as the 2009 documents. They didn't even update the financials with Actual numbers for 2010 and 2011, those still show as Projected. So I stand by my previous analysis, which was that both Penitente and Shelf Road are turning a PROFIT even at their current very low camping rates. You can read those P&L charts at
THIS LINK

This is not about filling a funding shortfall. It's about getting these campgrounds off the books, self-supporting, so that the appropriated funding (your tax dollars) that are spent on them now can be diverted elsewhere. Probably someplace that you personally would not want to visit in your worst nightmares.

One thing that would be funny if it weren't so tragic. The proposed fee increase at Penitente is being justified in part based on a market comparison to . . . Wait For It . . .

FUN VALLEY!

Now seriously folks, does anyone really think that the Penitente Canyon and Fun Valley demographics overlap even a little bit?

Comment now or forever hold your peace:
Denise Adamic dadamic@blm.gov
Make sure you request that she forward your comment to each member of the advisory committee before the meeting.

My source is the following statement from the Shelf Road "Business Plan":
"Currently, non-fee revenue (annual maintenance, operations, capital construction) pays the majority of campground operations, maintenance, and improvement costs. Under the proposed fee increase, fee revenue would pay the majority of costs for campground operations, maintenance, and improvements."

You can see from the financial attachments they provided that if you add fee and non-fee revenue together and compare them to the sum of fee and non-fee expenditures, each campground is running a modest profit. As to funding "improvements" a strong theme among the public comments submitted so far has been that the current users of the campgrounds are pretty satisfied with what is provided there now and would rather forego these "improvements" if it means having to pay for them via increased fees.

The Penitente and Shelf Road proposals are very similar and originally came out around the same time. They will both be decided at the same meeting on January 18th, and both affect mainly climbers, so I guess in my mind they are kind of blended. I'm sure they will both either be approved or denied, i.e. they will stand or fall together. Most likely stand, because the advisory committee that will give the final decision is already on record supporting the plans.

I agree that there should be a fee for camping in a developed campground. But the price should be kept as low as possible because these are federal lands that we all support. Facilities should be basic and affordable, and they shouldn't add stuff nobody wants just to justify charging more. They shouldn't be run as if they were private businesses, or set their rates based on private rv parks. In the case of these two campgrounds, the financials just don't justify increases of this magnitude (or maybe any increase at all).

Kitty - you are a master of argument fallacy. Just saying.

I didn't realize before this thread how subsidized these campgrounds are. Thanks for posting the links. I have been enlightened.

When I think about politics and our economy over the past few years, my 401k going to hell, my tax bracket, and what I get to do with my free time amidst it all - I have to say - fuck the grubs who can't afford and/or are unwilling to pay a few extra bucks to have someone pump out their toilet while recreating. Toilet pumping appears to be the #1 cost your camping fee pays for, followed by trash.

It appears for 2011 that they cut the staff hours dedicated to the area.

It looks to me like overall the place is being well managed. They cite that they monitor this website for comments. My comment is "Thanks".

If you want something to bitch about - look at the privatization of Indian Peaks. Your fees cover dish network in someone's RV while the trails erode away.

JLP's disrepectful mouth notwithstanding, I think the majority of us are thankful that there is someone watching over these issues and at least putting the information in front of us.

I am not quite sure I understand your statement JLP. Of course public lands are "subsidized" (as you put it). They are public lands.

Are you for the fee increase or against it?

I personally think Kitty is doing a great job of sorting out the facts. Thanks Kitty.

JLP wrote:
"If you want something to bitch about - look at the privatization of Indian Peaks. Your fees cover dish network in someone's RV while the trails erode away."

What makes you think the same thing isn't happening at Penitente? With high enough fees, it could be run by a concessionaire, like Brainard Lake. But with low fees, concessionaires aren't interested, since they can't make a profit. And concessionaires tend to charge day use fees too, not just camping fees. Ouch. And no thanks.

Stokes wrote:
"at the current price it's fine, but any increase beyond a couple of bucks will make extra driving an acceptable alternative."

I feel the same way. But the deal is, when Stokes and I and everyone else decide the fee is too high and we go primitive camp nearby, then our impacts will be much harder to deal with than if the fees were cheaper and we stayed in the campground instead.

In other words, low fees actually protect the environment and make BLM's job easier.

IMO, BLM needs to sit down with climbers and work out EXACTLY what BLM plans to do with the fee increase, and how they plan to protect climber's ability to camp there and elsewhere. These are public lands, not BLM lands, and should be treated that way.

I vote for a $2 increase, but nothing more. And definitely don't increase the amenities.

The fee increases for Penitente Canyon and Shelf Road campgrounds were approved by the BLM advisory committee, despite a majority of climber comments in opposition. According to the Pueblo Chieftain article pasted below the Shelf Road increases will take effect March 1, presumably the same for Penitente.

BLM campsites fees to increase
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:00 am

CANON CITY — The U.S. Bureau of Land Management will increase use fees for the three area campgrounds to help fund improvements.

Beginning March 1, fees at The Bank and Sand Gulch campgrounds in the Shelf Road area will increase. Fees will go from $4 to $7 for individual sites and from $8 to $14 for group sites.

Keith Berger, Royal Gorge field manager said the increase in fees is the first in 17 years. He said the additional money will be used to upgrade restrooms, campsites, roads and signs.