Would anybody object to having Trout Creek added to the site? Are there any access issues that we know about? Assuming that the guidebook was heavily recommended and that we didn't just blatantly plagiarize from it, can anybody see any additional issues that we'd need to handle?

I think that the "secret" is out (a couple decades of use, an article in Climbing, and an official guide...) although I'd hate to see it become completely overrun as much as anyone else.

I'd love to hear people's comments.

Thanks!

I think it should be posted.

I wouldn't worry about it being overrun. The sheer number of cams you need to climb there will keep a lot of people away. I've been there 3 times and never seen a soul.

What about posting the bouldering area in Bend that rhymes with 'repo'?

Seems like it's sort of out of the way and small to become an overrun popular crag isn't it? Tieton canyon is certainly no secret and see's little traffic for similar reasons and has comparable climbing.

Although I'm not a TC local and have never been there, I'd like to go some day and having some info would be nice.

Is there an opinion of the locals and first ascentionists that they don't want "outsiders" using their crag?

add it. it only takes about 2 minutes with google to get the lowdown anyway.

Keep it off! People used to say Indian Creek was too out of the way to get overrun but look at it now, the place is a mess. If people really want to climb there then they can talk with someone who has been and get the info. That doesn't seem like that big of a deal. I know TC has already got some press but isn't there something to be said for a little bit of mystery and adventure in life?

I say add it, you can go online and get the "E" guide for $2.50 anyway

http://jasonhuston.blogspot.com/2008/01/trout-creek.html

Or

http://www.lulu.com/browse/book_view.php?fCID=1936918&fBuyIt>>>>>

The more you're willing to share, the more everyone else will be too. I say post damn near everything and let god sort em out.

It might not be near Boulder but it is very near Portland and Bend. I'm not saying don't share the crag, I'm just saying we don't have to spray every crag all over the internet.

I think the general attitude of climbers in Oregon trying to keep areas 'secret' when their really just making people irate and frustrated is silly. I'd say post it, with the stipulations outlined in your original post. (guidebook emphasis, dos and don'ts, etc...) Right now TC is an amazing place to climb, but I think that could be changed if it were represented poorly on this site.

I say all that as someone who doesn't climb there as much as others and hasn't put nearly the amount of time, energy, and money into it as some. I'd contact Jeff Wenger (Bugabooed on CC.com) or any of the other people that climb there a lot and see what their thoughts are. I don't think it'll be overrun because there aren't that many people that will hike over 2 miles up a giant hill with a double rack to jam hard, abrasive cracks when they could just go to Smith and choose between cracks and bolts with a far mellower approach.

Additionally, I think that having it posted would help the crag more than hurt it. That way, when people are going to get together to bolster the trail up to the main wall, they can get the word out. Similarly, it would avoid the confusion around Wondertwins last summer when Jeff daubed Nest and an 'x' in chalk at the base in June that gave people second thoughts until October.

The only access issue I'm aware of is to not drive to the top of the crag on roads that cross private land. Also, it's a good idea to watch out for hunters and where bright colors in season...

This is interesting because, aside from Trout Creek, there are other areas in OR that could be "outed." The Garden was a "secret" for a very long time.

I've been living and surfing in Santa Cruz for the past year and am sick and tired of the stink eye I get when I paddle out at someone's "secret spot." This is why climbing is better IMO than surfing. Positive people and positive vibes. If climbing adopts the "locals only" attitude of surfing then we will have lost something special about our sport.

screw this 'secret crag' thing. add it.

aren't we all in this together?

With regard to the issue of 'secret crags' I think there is merit to withholding information from the internet/not publishing a guide to certain areas if they can't handle the volume and/or have access issues associated with them that preclude widespread proliferation of info to the greater climbing community. Basically, I think it's all situational and each crag needs to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. I also feel strongly that this is an issue best ultimately decided by the people who climb at these crags regularly/put their time and/or money into their development. Not people who live hundreds of miles away, but can relate strongly to the issue.

That being said, I think TC graduated from 'secret crag' status sometime last year; thus making it appropriate to publish info here on MP.com. Like I said earlier, I think more good would come of it if info were published here with the consent of the main stakeholders of the crag. (local seems, of late, to be somewhat of a loaded term) That way they might actually see the publishing of info, as many of us do, as a good thing for both the crag and the community.

It should be published widely...there still won't be huge crowds. It is a long hike, with a big rack for 1 pitch cragging. The rock is insanely rough, to the point that some people wear leather suits to climb there, and there just aren't that many routes.
It is a fun area, but there a better basalt lines in eastern oregon than trout creek....it is yesterdays news.

Whatever the result, thanks for asking!

so is it going to be posted or what?

I was alerted to this forum and want to let everyone know the downloadable guide is now free. I also want to explain a little about the (process of) access at Trout Creek and where we are today. Please read (OK, at least skim) this posting before downloading. The Web address is at the end of this posting.

First, I agree with Max...and the general consensus on this forum regarding Trout Creek. In my opinion, posting info NOW makes great sense but that wasn't’t always the case. I'll focus on the biggest issue below: ACCESS.

For those unfamiliar with the area, the climbing and part of the approach at Trout Creek sit on a fuzzy boundary of BLM and private land. The land on the mesa above the columns is part of a huge piece of property owned by the original settlers of Gateway, the Vibbert family. It is used to graze cattle and for several months every year as a pay-to-play bird hunting “preserve”. The property also contains an old homestead, a large productive farm, ponds, creeks, 4x4 roads, and an amazing solitary gravesite on the canyon rim between the crag and the campground. What we have here is an old sprawling property with several spotty boundaries on its BLM borders. The family had some BIG reservations about people being up there, mostly because they assumed climbers would want to cross their property and of course they had concerns about liability.

Why have things changed?
By NOT attempting to access the crag over private property, we’ve built trust with the before-weary Vibberts. They feel much better about us being in the area (and that REALLY matters in this case) compared to their initial, understandable reservations. So long as we continue to respect their land by NOT using it to access the cliff, more climbers shouldn’t be a big deal…and more climbers is what posting will bring.

I had the recent opportunity to meet with the guy who manages the hunting preserve for the Vibberts. He mentioned that he checks-in on the crag (what the family calls ‘dry island’) and has been very impressed with the fact that people have been respectful of the land. The Vibbert family loves the area and appreciates the fact others do too (even if the climbing is abrasive and physical!!). They’re thankful we take the time to walk in from the campground and that we encourage others to only access the climbing from below (I.E. lead rather than walk around to TR/rap ). Since neither the county nor the Vibberts are 100% clear on the boundary lines with the BLM and since they once owned all of what is now Gateway, the positive relations we have established are key for long-term access.

I'm in the process of updating the guide and plan on making it available as a free download when it is complete. The printed copies will be a lot less too because they will be condensed.

As mentioned before, you can now download the current guide and supplement for free. http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=730382
Look for the new one in the next month or two.

Peter, feel free to pull selected content from the guide and post it here BUT please make sure to include a note about the above mentioned access.

Thanks!

Looooove Trout Creek! I have half the rack for the place, so if anyone wants to go.....

Caught this thread late, but thought I'd chime in. While I agree with Adam in that it would be nice to see Trout Creek shrouded in mystery the eventual exposure is inevitable.
My only hope is that the locals who have done such a great job acting as stewards for the area can continue to do so with increased use. When I visited the anchors were bomber, the area was pristine and the climbers were friendly. Lets hope it can stay that way. Indian creek most certainly has not stayed that way.

Jeff,
Thanks so much for posting that information; I knew that the land above the cliffline was on private property but I wasn't aware of the details.

I am hardly an expert on the area so it might be better if you or somebody else put up the initial information here on the site. I think that in situations such as this it's a good idea to make it clear to everyone that the area needs to be respected and cared for.

I will be in portland on monday and I am looking to get down and experience trout creek. I will not be able to bring my indian creek rack so I need someone who have enough cams. Send me a line if you are looking to go down there, or would allow a tag-a-long.
Thanks,
JEsse

FYI to Jesse, Devon, and others who haven't been there:

1. It is going to be HOT this time of year but you can chase shade. Get up there early to avoid walking up the hill in the sun!!!! The main cliff will be in the shade until about 1:30 then you can slide around to the N/NE end but even that zone gets some sun through August.

2. You'll be able to climb with a "regular" rack on many of the routes. If you climb solid 5.10 and have a double set of cams and stoppers you should be fine on some of the most popular climbs like Wonder Twins, U2, The Guillotine, Sleepy Hallow, Gods Must Be Angry, Two Step, Usual Suspects, Talkin' it Clean (and the routes close by), The Long March, Rock Around the Block, Mr Squiggles, Lively Up Yourself...and many others. So don't let the lack of gear talk you out of heading up there.

Jr Token, Gold Rush, Fingerlings, Alchemy and many of the finger cracks (typically) require more than doubles.

Hope that helps

Jeff, thanks so much for the fixed steel biners. I'm not 100% sure who exactly to thank, but I'm 75% sure you had a hand in it. Thanks again for all the time, money, and effort you've put into Trout. It's given a crag with awesome natural assets a wonderful communal vibe.

Thanks Max,
Yeah, the more popular routes are now equipped with steel biners. I put some of the money into the purchase but the lions share ($200) came from Ken Koblitz of Portland. Hydar and I placed most of them one day in late May. BTW, thanks for the beer if that was you. Hope summer is treating you well and you're staying cool somewhere in the alpine. See you soon.