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Open request for photos of the Cochise Stronghold for the guidebook
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By cochiseclimbing
Feb 10, 2014

Do you have a stunning shot of yourself on Abracadaver and you want it to be in the guidebook?

I am looking for ALL and ANY photos of the Stronghold that you might have saved somewhere. OLD (like the ones I have of Mike Strassman in pink tights) or NEW like the ones you took last weekend.

Send one, send all, and if they are high resolution- even better. Please contact me for dropbox information and let me suppliment the pages with your face so you get the best angle of every climb possible! And you can show off your chops both climbing and behind the lens.

Check out www.cochiseclimbing.com to find out more details.


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By Geir
From Tucson, AZ
Feb 10, 2014
Toofast

It won't be "the" guidebook, it will be one of the guidebooks.

It is well known that Toofast's Topos has a book in progress as well.

The website is at www.toofasttopos.com


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By Paul Davidson
Feb 10, 2014

The race is on....

Shucks SA, Strassman in pink tights is a new photo :-)


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By Mike Diesen
From Sierra Vista, AZ
Feb 10, 2014

Geir, that is extremely tacky!!!


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By Geir
From Tucson, AZ
Feb 11, 2014
Toofast

Sorry Mike, I'm calling BS on that one.

People are free to write whatever books they want. However, if Scott bills his book as "the long awaited guidebook" and "the guidebook" for Cochise knowing full well there is another one in the works it's insulting, plain and simple.

If Scott wants me to play nice, he needs to as well.

Paul, my take is that this isn't about racing. Undoubtedly these are going to wind up being vastly different works. There's plenty of room for both as far as I am concerned. My plan is to get the initial book done and assemble further editions as I continue to climb out there. I plan on doing this for the next 30 years, so if this is a race I'll probably be last.


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By NoName1
Feb 11, 2014

This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.


By cochiseclimbing
Feb 11, 2014

Just so you guys know this is Tanya, not Scott. If you want to contact him, please email him through the website www.cochiseclimbing.com

I am the one driving this project in any capacity, and Scott is merely acting as my archive. I do think pink lycra is pretty dated, maybe not EB-dated, but old. If you've got older pictures please send them to me! Any 70's painter pants butt shots out there?


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By Dan Cohen
Feb 11, 2014

Geir is right that Tanya's guidebook will be "a" guidebook. Only time will tell which will be "the" guidebook. For my money, I'd go with the information of the person who has already spent 30 years climbing in the Stronghold, and has been the architect of at least a hundred pitches (probably more), rather than someone repeating routes and creating mediocre topos.

I'm not allowed on toofasttopos.com. I emailed the administrator, but never received any reply. I can only speculate that it is for personal reasons.

However, I do recall that when Geir's website was accessible to everyone, regardless of his personal feelings toward the user, the majority of the topos were of Scott Ayers' routes. If his existing topos are any indication, Geir's guidebook will cover the same areas that Tanya's will, though in lesser quality.

Perhaps if Geir's efforts were applied to more obscure areas of the Stronghold, such as The Hands, his contributions would provide some value to Stronghold climbers.


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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
Feb 11, 2014
modern man

Dan Cohen wrote:
However, I do recall that when Geir's website was accessible to everyone, regardless of his personal feelings toward the user, the majority of the topos were of Scott Ayers' routes.


Yeah, that seemed kind of strange to me as well and I just assumed Scott was too busy actually putting up a ton of new routes to actually sit down and do it all again on paper. I also assumed Geir and Scott were friends and Geir was just helping out Scott by drawing topos for all of his routes...


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By Mike Diesen
From Sierra Vista, AZ
Feb 11, 2014

Geir, I wasn't calling tacky on tofast topos. I was calling you out on your attempt to hi jack this thread. Your comment just makes you look really bad.


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By cochiseclimbing
Feb 11, 2014

Scott has been busy for over 30 years putting up routes for us. He has documented every classic climb he has repeated, some numerous times, and every climb he has ever established. What he lacks is technology skills to get this into a book.

So this fall, while cleaning out our filing cabinet, I discovered stacks of topos that had been meticulously cataloging over the years for an eventual guidebook. I had no idea he was so organized or had this much material prepared. For decades people have asked him when we was going to come out with a guidebook. To me, this project has been long coming. It has not just been conjured up to have ill will or compete with anyone and I think people are aware of that.

Every Friday our phone rings with people calling for route information. Every time we are out climbing we are directing people to climbs and they are so excited to just be climbing. These are the people who are motivating us to finally complete a 30 year project.

Theres is an explosion of climbing in the Stronghold so the time has come. Unfortunately, this also means the Stronghold will not stay a little hideaway forever and if people are going to come we want them to be safe and know what is out there- not just another "unknown route L of this".

I have the time, I have the archives, but what I need is the support. I can't afford to go to print without pre-sales of the guidebook (unless you want to wait another 7 years while I save $20,000). This project is not only time intensive but will take some capital, especially to hire graphic artists to help ensure the book is high quality.

I have faith that the people who have bought the book and people who are going to buy the book understand the value in the product. The fact is it is being put out by someone who has given us hours of his time creating climbs and building trail so we can go out every weekend and play speaks volumes. Please support that.

Many of you don't know me but I can assure you, this is the real thing. We are trying to create something that you will use for the next 20 years. Why don't you jump on board too? That is the only way to make it happen.


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By Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
Feb 11, 2014
Duck face with Largo

It seems that some people read into the original post things that are not there. I did not read it as a "be all end all" guidebook announcement. After reading some of the hostility posted, I went back to see if I somehow missed this passive aggressiveness in the OP, but I didn't see it personally. If you have issues with someone, I guess you can project whatever you want into anything.

If there is room enough for two guidebooks (or 3 or 4 - and of course there is, many areas have multiple guidebooks), then there is nothing to be defensive about.

I have sometimes used two guidebooks in places like Red Rocks and Yosemite. I look forward to this release and anything else that comes along. Even though I already own one Stronghold guidebook.


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By cochiseclimbing
Feb 11, 2014

Thank you for your support.

I know lots of people use MP as a resource and I could not think of a better way to get my message out there. Who would have thought that my threads would be hijacked and turned hostile.

This project is for the climbing community and I am asking them now to disregard the pettiness that will ensure and help us focus on our goal. I should be working on the guidebook right now as every hour gets us closer to publication.


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By Mike Diesen
From Sierra Vista, AZ
Feb 11, 2014

I think I have a nude picture of me climbing on Sweet Rock.


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By Brigette
From Vancouver, WA
Feb 12, 2014
At the anchors.

I'd buy a book with that in it! ...even if I don't live there anymore. ;)


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By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Feb 12, 2014
tanuki

Dan Cohen wrote:
I will say that the Geir certainly never had Scott's endorsement of his topos. Out of respect for the privacy for all parties, I won't comment on their relationship beyond that. Certainly a guidebook for the Stronghold, beyond the Kerry book, is a welcome accomplishment. Anyone who has been fortunate enough to climb there knows what a gem the area is. I think it's important to keep in mind that the routes, particularly the mixed and bolted lines, take a massive amount of effort, money, and time, all of which is donated. With that in mind, I recognize the privilege that I am afforded from the labor of others (at the Stronghold and elsewhere), and am happy to respect their wishes. I think it is telling that Geir's crusade for information freely available to anyone (except myself) has not been applied to the countless routes that Dave Des Champs has put up in the aforementioned area, The Hands.


I am not sure what all that means. Why is it "telling" that Geir hasn't posted topos for the Dave Des Champs routes? What point are you trying to convey when you talk about "respect(ing) their wishes?" Why does a guidebook author need the FAs permission to post topos of routes that are not a secret? In plain and simple English, please state your beef. Or, better yet, stop tying to stir the pot and don't turn this into a discussion on how Scott = Good, Geir = Bad.

All these Southern AZ threads invariably turn into a shit-show of innuendoes, politics and butthurt. If you got something to say, Dan, just say it. Better yet, lets all just be happy that there are going to be two guidebooks written by climbers that are BOTH very knowledgeable about and love The Stronghold.


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By Mike Diesen
From Sierra Vista, AZ
Feb 12, 2014


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By Aleix
Feb 13, 2014
I was riding shotgun <br />in the devil's cadillac... <br />we were heading for the crossroads <br />with a monkey on my back...

Thank you NC Rock Climber. Of course someone had to put inn his little video. Mike, I have a funny video for you too, but I'll just PM it to you so that we stop "hijacking" Tanya's thread. Tanya, good luck with the guidebook. Geir, your topos are awesome and very accurate, look forward to seeing the one for "Sensory Desuetude". Can't wait to see both guidebooks (as long as there are no pictures of Mike naked, that is).


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By John Farley
Feb 13, 2014
Out In NV. Photo by D. Salazar

"All these Southern AZ threads invariably turn into a shit-show of innuendoes, politics and butthurt."

I suggest a NC vs AZ trad hound cage fight… On like CHONG


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By Dan Cohen
Feb 13, 2014

NC Rock Climber wrote:
I am not sure what all that means. Why is it "telling" that Geir hasn't posted topos for the Dave Des Champs routes? What point are you trying to convey when you talk about "respect(ing) their wishes?" Why does a guidebook author need the FAs permission to post topos of routes that are not a secret? In plain and simple English, please state your beef. Or, better yet, stop tying to stir the pot and don't turn this into a discussion on how Scott = Good, Geir = Bad. All these Southern AZ threads invariably turn into a shit-show of innuendoes, politics and butthurt. If you got something to say, Dan, just say it. Better yet, lets all just be happy that there are going to be two guidebooks written by climbers that are BOTH very knowledgeable about and love The Stronghold.


At this point, I'd rather leave it as is. As I said before, the guidebooks will speak for themselves.

I hope everyone is going to pre-purchase a copy.


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By Jack Ubaek
From tucson
Feb 13, 2014
Alana B

it was mentioned somewhere that this book will clear up the "route left of such and such" entries on mp. why do we need a book for that? has that information been deliberately withheld to make this long awaited book more enticing? if those routes were put up with no expectation of compensation why not just spread the info? not tyring to start a fight, just wondering.

call it whatever you want but there is something to be said for a guy that offers his topos up for free. regardless of whether or not you feel they are accurate enough for your needs, a guy that offers that kind of service to his community deserves my thanks, i've used them and don't consider myself the best routefinder on the planet and i have found them to be quite sufficient. honestly i can't imagine what level of detail or accuracy folks like dan are looking for.


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By Mike Diesen
From Sierra Vista, AZ
Feb 13, 2014

Sorry Aleix. Just thought the video was really funny and so true. Maybe it was a lame attempt at trying to lighten things up and bring them back to the original intent of this post. Didn't think it would really offend anyone.

I'll make sure any naked pictures I send to Tanya are insinuated and not full on.


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By Aleix
Feb 14, 2014
I was riding shotgun <br />in the devil's cadillac... <br />we were heading for the crossroads <br />with a monkey on my back...

Mike, you are not helping me help your friend Tanya get her thread back :)
"so true" ? One truth can have so many different narratives. It is the truth that a route was put up and then put down in the N side of the Rockfellow Dome a couple of years ago. But it is only my subjective interpretation and narrative that a few of you are still sore about that and project your resentment on everything that Geir does or says, hence the bashing in this thread. I say it's time to move on. Send your pictures (naked or not), buy a guidebook or two and go climbing!


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By Mike Diesen
From Sierra Vista, AZ
Feb 14, 2014

Not sure how some route on the Rockfellows relates to the video but the truth is the only thing I know about you Aleix, is you kind of look like Marilyn Monroe. :-)

I would drop it and climb but I just had a herniated disk in my neck replace so all I can do is sit on the computer for the next 6 weeks.


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By Chris Wenker
From Santa Fe
Feb 14, 2014
Bandera

Well, OK, to help get the thread back on track:
To the OP: How are image licensing and royalties going to be dealt with?


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By Owen Summerscales
From Los Alamos, NM
Feb 14, 2014
Gerle creek at loon lake

"Image royalties" HAR!


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