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By Wombat
From Boulder, co
May 22, 2012
Cutout from a larger map illustrating accessibilit...
I am aware of the concerns for letting non admins edit areas but i think the quality of page data now has the pitential to improve tremendousely with these mobile apps. We now have people standing at the crag with MP in their hand. People can actively edit on the spot. How else are we going to add the data that is needed to make these apps truly useful? Wait for admins to add map coordinates and sort climbs? They already have too much to do so why not let us help? The MP motto is "beyond the guidebook". Untill we improve the data to make finding climbspossible MP wont even be at the level of an always outdated guide book.

If all this is too much, how about adding functionality for submitting change requests to admins with something better thab clunky email or comments that clutter pages?

I do think mp is an awesome resource, as are these apps, but it seems time to keep charging ahead with the momentum of these mobile apps

J

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By Andy Laakmann
Site Landlord
From Bend, OR
May 23, 2012
Racked and loaded... name that splitter behind me?...
Broader editing is a goal, but sadly sabotage is a very real concern.

We have had many users (even well respected users with a great history of adding content) suddenly turn to the dark side and trash their content. All it takes is one forum post and a user can blow their top and destroy their content.

Yes, versioning can help with this.. but it isn't easy to add in at this time AND the admins would be swamped if we just opened up editing.

We are exploring baby steps to take.....

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By Wombat
From Boulder, co
May 24, 2012
Cutout from a larger map illustrating accessibilit...
What about a community acceptance tier? For example, editor submits a change which is displayed on the page and is fully commited after a certain number of users verify it. Something like community driven verification. If open street map can handle open editing to something as complex as a world map, mp can handle a couple angry climbers. Besides, were a community that has a history of policing ourselves. Its not always perfect but its better than any other group I've seen. On that note, maybe tagging an editors submission with their name would create more transparency amongst the community.

Like i said before, mp is a great product but this is crowd sourced data. The users who provide this wealth of data deserve to be able to interact more productively with it. If not through the mp website then at least through a data api or data download. Its frustrating and counter productive to have this resource but still have to buy guide books just because the community can't improve the data. Those barriers are significant to the user. They can keep people from using the mp app or website. If the mp team needs more help with development just ask. I know there are enough climbers willing to put in FREE time. Myself included.

I'm begging by the way...

J

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By Andy Laakmann
Site Landlord
From Bend, OR
May 24, 2012
Racked and loaded... name that splitter behind me?...
One of the things we want to avoid is everyone being able to edit a description.

Why? One of the nice things about MP are the different voices on each route. It is fun to have a variety of voices. If we allowed mass editing all the descriptions would get sanitized down to very dry descriptions ala wikipedia.

I've always believed MP documents people's EXPERIENCES on climbs, not the climbs themselves. And having the experiences told in unique voices is part of that.....

Instead, we are considering an adoption process where you can ask to adopt a route, and the original contributor or admin can approve this and then you are temporarily allowed to modify the description.

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By Wombat
From Boulder, co
May 24, 2012
Cutout from a larger map illustrating accessibilit...
Do you really think the broader community ( your customers) cares about a description if it isnt useful? Your in the business of data collection which you turn around as a service to the community and the contributers. Any story collecting can happen in the comments or forum. To neglect the value in building out the data with map coordinates, updated camping beta, updated directions, etc... grossly underestimates the value of mp. My whole point in posting here is that mobile technology allows you to take mp to the next level. Users can actively gps crags, for example. MP apps are a lot more useful when you can actually find what your looking for. Try looking at the thunder ridge directions. That is a sensitive area with private property concerns yet there are numerous sets of approach descriptions and no maps or coordinates. Some may want to keep that secret but to deny the info could and does result in people accidentally trespassing. MP mobile apps have the potential to allow people to navigate more accurately and improve any unclear info. That may take away from the story but at least people who choose to seek out info are less likely to get lost, go off trail in sensitive ecosystems, or cross into private property. Those are real issues that we all should be concerned with. This isnt some little pet project any more. You have users that depend on the integrity of the data and who are limited to contribute back. I am not trying to disrespect you or this effort but mp should seriously consider these issues that i am not alone in being concerned with. After all, with better data and some cleaning you might be able to have a stronger presence outside of colorado... maybe even make some money. You deserve it. I have yet too see any crowd sourced effort as successful as mp in colorado. The only comparison is open street map in western europe. Soo, i guess that leaves me in the same place as when i started this discussion with you over a year ago. Still an avid user feeling held back from helping out. It's not very often you have people caring this much to help build a product for free.

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By Cultivating Mass
May 24, 2012
Leading on the only "fair means" rack.
Wow, this thread is food for thought on a few levels. Nothing to contribute specifically, just enjoying the dialog. Flame on-

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By Wayne
From Superior, CO
May 25, 2012
Andy Laakmann wrote:
Broader editing is a goal, but sadly sabotage is a very real concern. ... We are exploring baby steps to take.....


I would recommend a study of wiki tools and policies. Wikipedia has some documentation on itself. There are a lot of ways to control this.

Now integrating such tools into an existing system - there will be the challenge. But the tools and processes and such do exist.

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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
May 25, 2012
Bocan
Andy Laakmann wrote:
Broader editing is a goal, but sadly sabotage is a very real concern. We have had many users (even well respected users with a great history of adding content) suddenly turn to the dark side and trash their content. All it takes is one forum post and a user can blow their top and destroy their content.


haha sometimes coincidently when a guidebook is coming out as well.

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