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By Colin Parker
Administrator
From Idyllwild, CA
Apr 25, 2012
Bouldering in Joshua Tree

What was the goal of your repetitive rant here? 99% of people coming to this thread were hoping to glean some information about what might of happened to your cam, and you are repeatedly refusing to provide such information. So OP hasn't responded to you (yet), so REI deleted your non-informative and highly muckraking 'review', so what? I could think of many ways you could have provided more information, without being speculative, that would have helped the community and given buyers some valuable information, but you haven't. If I were you, I'd try to look at this from anyone's perspective other than your own, and act accordingly.

And for full disclosure, I own one gold link cam and I've never had issues with it, besides it nearly getting stuck a few times...


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By mattm
From TX
Apr 25, 2012
Grande Grotto

Colin Parker wrote:
What was the goal of your repetitive rant here? 99% of people coming to this thread were hoping to glean some information about what might of happened to your cam, and you are repeatedly refusing to provide such information. So OP hasn't responded to you (yet), so REI deleted your non-informative and highly muckraking 'review', so what? I could think of many ways you could have provided more information, without being speculative, that would have helped the community and given buyers some valuable information, but you haven't. If I were you, I'd try to look at this from anyone's perspective other than your own, and act accordingly. And for full disclosure, I own one gold link cam and I've never had issues with it, besides it nearly getting stuck a few times...


Gotta agree, you still haven't said what HAPPENED to the cam, only you were displeased with how CS has dealt with it so far. These are two vastly different issues.


With your stated experience you should be able to provide a well thought out description of WHAT exactly occurred with the cam along with your thoughts on all of it. REI and any other web seller can't "vet" every poster online. EVERYONE will (or should) take a post online with a HUGE heap of salt. This especially true of those who don't have a large body of "online work" from which to base an opinion. You could be a true MASTER of the vertical world but no one knows that. Certain other posters online (very few I might add) have, for me, established themselves as well versed and reasonable people who's online postings I value and take to heart. RGold and Jim Titt come to mind. There are others of course. The other 99.9% of people are just other names on the screen.


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By mattm
From TX
Apr 25, 2012
Grande Grotto

Damn if this isn't a coincidence...

RC.com Link Cam failure post from April, 16th.


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By Jeremy Kasmann
From Denver, CO
Apr 25, 2012

Dow Williams wrote:
This is my last resort.


I assume since this is your last resort you called OP, maybe sent an email, and got no response? Or as you said they "refused to comment" when you talked to them?


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By Tim C
From Lakewood, CO
Apr 25, 2012
Grahh! There be a human in my Throne!

Has he stated anywhere how long he waited for a response from OP? Did Dow just mail the cam out and put this post up the next day or wait a week or what?
I mean if you want an in depth analysis of why it broke it might take longer then a few days. And probably need more information then you gave them.
Do you expect them to just right away say 'oh yeah that is a defect with the cams!' If it is something new that you brought to their attention they will want to do some Quality control tests on a sampling of other cams to see if it is a real problem or if it was just a bad placement or something. That stuff takes time to figure out and especially if it could be a huge problem for the company, they will want to make sure their response is correct before making an official statement.


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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Apr 25, 2012

OP and Dow should be in touch by now- I chatted with OP this am and they're addressing the issue as we speak.


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By the Oracle
From Delphi
Apr 25, 2012
mawiage

Hombre,

You've got to work on your editing and presentation!

Your original post made it unclear exactly what your gripe was because it's so hard to read, and your refusal to give up at least the story or provide relevant data such as the time elapsed since you got in touch with OP is more aggravating than thought provoking.

We want to care about the alleged unresponsiveness of Omega Pacific, but we can't care until we know more about the situation!

Ya gotta provide the details of what's actually happening, and work on your writing!


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By MikeJ
Apr 25, 2012

Great story!! Thanks for explaining the placement, fall distance, and the photos of the broken cam and description of how it failed were great. It was especially interesting since it wasn't the kind of placement Omega Pacific have already publicly stated can lead to a failure.

.... oh wait, we got none of that. So you're just wasting our time.


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By Chris D
From the couch
Apr 25, 2012
Sign near the Third Flatiron

mattm wrote:


Send that to me. I can fix it good as new for a small fee. All work guaranteed.


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By Dow Williams
From Saint George, UT
Apr 25, 2012
Dow Williams, 2011

John Wilder wrote:
OP and Dow should be in touch by now- I chatted with OP this am and they're addressing the issue as we speak.


John is correct. My "last resort" did get their attention. I have received an email indicating they are now interested in the issue. I will withhold my opinion or any other statements on the matter until I have completed any communication with the appropriate parties. Everything I have stated thus far is factual. I don't speculate when it comes to forensics on gear on the internet with avatars. If I was talking to you in person, it would obviously be different. You can keep bouncing back and forth between yourselves, but I will wait to see what OP does from this point forward. I will report back once I get their opinion on the cam based on my observations in the field.

So we are clear, I of anyone, would rather not lose faith in the link cams and retire my lot. I would much rather keep them in use and never hesitate to reach for them. Their versatility saves me considerable ounces on big alpine routes. In my opinion, I had given OP more than adequate time to respond and/or at least acknowledge receipt of the cam. Better late than never is acceptable in this case of course.


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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Apr 25, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life

Lucidity and Clarity. They're not just words that both end in "y". Look up the definitions and start incorporating the concepts into your everyday communication. You'll thank me later.

Seriously - this was the most circular, continuous string of nonsensical and oddly-worded posts I've read yet on MP.




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By MichaelLane
Apr 27, 2012

Hello, All ...

I'm the sales & marketing director for Omega Pacific and found this thread on Wednesday. We're pretty prompt to respond to any returns--particularly when there could be broken gear involved--so I was alarmed to read it.

I looked into it right away and found that we'd received Dow's cam a week earlier--on the 17th--and called him twice, leaving him a message that he, apparently didn't receive. I contacted Dow via email on Wednesday, though, and we exchanged a couple of messages about what had happened and his cam was repaired and returned that day.

The nature of the damage to the cam was a pair of broken trigger cables, which is unfortunate and certainly inconvenient, but not all together uncommon. Sometimes, when cables get bent near the swage, they become brittle and fibers can break. We replaced all four cables with freshies, gave the cam a tune-up and sent it back to him within about eight days of receiving it.

Everything seems to have gone according to our return policies on this one, save that Dow didn't get the phone message we sent him on the 18th, and we regret that. We're glad, though, that the damage to the cam was not structural, an easy fix and was returned within 10 days, as per our typical turnaround goal.

We are always available to discuss any concerns or questions about our gear, so please feel free to contact me at the coordinates below.

--Lane
Omega Pacific
info@omegapac.com (attn: Lane in subject line)
1.800.360.3990



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By DexterRutecki
From Cincinnati, Ohio
Apr 27, 2012

This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.


By Colin Parker
Administrator
From Idyllwild, CA
Apr 27, 2012
Bouldering in Joshua Tree

In the end this thread will go down as one of the best 'awww deeeaaamnnn' threads on this site :-) I think now we know the real reason why more information wasn't furnished up front.


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By JohnWesely
From Red River Gorge
Apr 27, 2012
Gunking

I can't believe Omega Pacific even dealt with the guys broken trigger wire. One of my Metolius cams has a frayed trigger wire that I repaired with climbing tape. Should I be posting vague gear failure reports on every site that will allow it?


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By John Farrell
From Phoenix, AZ
Apr 27, 2012
Chilling on Moby Dick, Cochise Stronghold.

JohnWesely wrote:
I can't believe Omega Pacific even dealt with the guys broken trigger wire. One of my Metolius cams has a frayed trigger wire that I repaired with climbing tape. Should I be posting vague gear failure reports on every site that will allow it?



I called them up for a replacement trigger wire kit and they had me send in the cam and fixed it along with a good cam cleaning. I had it back in a week with no charge for the service. This was on a three or four year cam that has been heavily used. I have found their customer service outstanding.

I don't carry the Red and Yellow much anymore. I have found the purple and green ones invaluable on my rack.


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By agd
Apr 27, 2012
alaska

Dow Williams wrote:
John is correct. My "last resort" did get their attention. I have received an email indicating they are now interested in the issue. I will withhold my opinion or any other statements on the matter until I have completed any communication with the appropriate parties. Everything I have stated thus far is factual. I don't speculate when it comes to forensics on gear on the internet with avatars. If I was talking to you in person, it would obviously be different. You can keep bouncing back and forth between yourselves, but I will wait to see what OP does from this point forward. I will report back once I get their opinion on the cam based on my observations in the field. So we are clear, I of anyone, would rather not lose faith in the link cams and retire my lot. I would much rather keep them in use and never hesitate to reach for them. Their versatility saves me considerable ounces on big alpine routes. In my opinion, I had given OP more than adequate time to respond and/or at least acknowledge receipt of the cam. Better late than never is acceptable in this case of course.


I find it strange/interesting/scary that you climb "big alpine routes" yet you can't tell the difference between a structural vs non-structural part of the cam. It's a damn trigger wire!


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By sanz
From Raleigh, NC
Apr 27, 2012
One of my first trad leads, on Ooga Chocka at Crowder's Mountain.

MichaelLane wrote:
The nature of the damage to the cam was a pair of broken trigger cables


IN YO FACE
IN YO FACE


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By mattm
From TX
Apr 27, 2012
Grande Grotto

Colin Parker wrote:
In the end this thread will go down as one of the best 'awww deeeaaamnnn' threads on this site :-) I think now we know the real reason why more information wasn't furnished up front.


100% agree. If you go back and re-read Dow's posts, all the while knowing it's a broken TRIGER WIRE, one realizes the level of teenage melodrama he spewed about NOTHING.

Seriously? You retired your entire rack of link cams because OP didn't get back to you within a WEEK about a broken trigger wire?

To Quote Boomer - "C'mon Man!"


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By Dow Williams
From Saint George, UT
Apr 28, 2012
Dow Williams, 2011

lol, a sampling from Georgia, Texas and a kid with a tic list of 5.6's....so typical of a MP gear thread and why I never participate....

I appreciate Lane getting to me, as a result of this thread. I received the cam yesterday but am still laying down the links...due to what I examined reading other reviews as well as my experience.

I never said it was a structural break....for the record, Lane is as perplexed as I about what caused both triggers to fry at the same time. I was looking for answers more than a fixed cam. I was leading two folks. One needed lowered on a crux pitch, both were brought up into one device simultaneously. The lowered rope ran across the the gear on the none lowering rope. It was fully weighted of course, at an overhang. A climbing rope busting trigger wires via friction is something I had never seen nor expected, yet had to lower many folks over the years for one reason or another. Although I cannot claim that BD, Metolius or Trango might not react the same way...both Lane and I don't believe friction from nylon, even against rock, should bust trigger wires. That being said, trigger wires do get frail from packing and re-packing your rack, bending and re-bending. This could be a coincidence, both popping. My issue is that I originally started using the links since their inception for use on big routes in the Bugaboos...where we are almost always up against time, particulary measured against daylight and weather (talking about routes like Cooper-Kor). I prefer to go as light as possible, sans bivy gear or stove. I am not going to carry trigger wire kits nor can I afford to stop and mess with broken trigger wires. I was hoping for a more definitive explanation, i.e. that the wires were coincidentally both at their breaking point when the weighted rope rubbed up against them. Sounds like that could not be determined.

Anyone want our links, you are welcome to contact me through MP. I removed all negative reviews as they all related to OP's responsiveness and Lane obviously fixed that. I stand by my comments about REI. I just find that weird, but am not much of a fan, so not bothered by it much. (suppose to be member owned...yeah, sure, naivety reigns supreme)

As for the chest thumping and name calling....I just once, just once wish one of you tough guy MP keyboard addicts carried the same attitude when I met you in the field....I am the same ass hole on line that I am in person, no different. It would be so entertaining if one of these cats could follow through with his fake bravado when meeting me in person...Rob, Killis....please introduce me to one some day.

I got what I needed...the thread is now yours....you hard core MFers....lol


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By JohnWesely
From Red River Gorge
Apr 28, 2012
Gunking

Dow Williams wrote:
lol, a sampling from Georgia, Texas and a kid with a tic list of 5.6's


I am assuming you are making a jab at the South for being full of ignorant rednecks. You might want to look in the mirror.


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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Apr 28, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life

Dow Williams wrote:
lol, a sampling from Georgia, Texas and a kid with a tic list of 5.6's


This may shock you, but most people probably don't update their tick lists religiously so that they can impress badasses like you.

Dow Williams wrote:
As for the chest thumping and name calling....I just once, just once wish one of you tough guy MP keyboard addicts carried the same attitude when I met you in the field....I am the same ass hole on line that I am in person, no different. It would be so entertaining if one of these cats could follow through with his fake bravado when meeting me in person...Rob, Killis....please introduce me to one some day. I got what I needed...the thread is now yours....you hard core MFers....lol


I'll be passing through San Jorge in two weeks on my way to Red Rock. Message me if you want me to stop by your place. I'll tell you to your face that you're a quasi-literate tool whose braggadocio and desperate attempts at badassery are only made more hilarious by the fact that you're a 48 year old man who uses "lol" like a 13 year old girl. I can be even more of a dick in person.

Hugs and Kisses,
Austin


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By bearbreeder
Apr 28, 2012

trigger wires go poofy ... thats why BD sells trigger wire kits .... ive had the fun of using them a few times ... the shop in squamish usually has a whole rack of cams of various types under repair for triggers ...


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By Rob Fielding
From Las Vegas, NV
Apr 28, 2012
Third pillar of dana descent.

Haven't ya'll ever heard the term, "respect your elders." Check out summitpost for a some beta on routes in the Canadian Rockies, Nevada, and Utah. Dow's put in more time/effort than many of us will do in our climbing careers.

Dow's got quite a bit of experience under his belt, had a problem w/ his gear, and wanted a answer. Seems pretty simple to me. The omega link cams have had particular problems with their trigger/wire systems, significantly on the 1st generation cams, but since have been much improved.

Austin, I live 10 minutes from Red Rocks, you can find me in the Canyons 3-4 x/week, usually "shirtless." Better assemble your crew!

Cheers dow!

And yes, I stole this photo from the nevada forum, just couldn't resist.

Assemble your crew.
Assemble your crew.


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By mattm
From TX
Apr 29, 2012
Grande Grotto

Dow Williams wrote:
lol, a sampling from Georgia, Texas and a kid with a tic list of 5.6's....so typical of a MP gear thread and why I never participate.... I appreciate Lane getting to me, as a result of this thread. I received the cam yesterday but am still laying down the links...due to what I examined reading other reviews as well as my experience. I never said it was a structural break....for the record, Lane is as perplexed as I about what caused both triggers to fry at the same time. I was looking for answers more than a fixed cam. I was leading two folks. One needed lowered on a crux pitch, both were brought up into one device simultaneously. The lowered rope ran across the the gear on the none lowering rope. It was fully weighted of course, at an overhang. A climbing rope busting trigger wires via friction is something I had never seen nor expected, yet had to lower many folks over the years for one reason or another. Although I cannot claim that BD, Metolius or Trango might not react the same way...both Lane and I don't believe friction from nylon, even against rock, should bust trigger wires. That being said, trigger wires do get frail from packing and re-packing your rack, bending and re-bending. This could be a coincidence, both popping. My issue is that I originally started using the links since their inception for use on big routes in the Bugaboos...where we are almost always up against time, particulary measured against daylight and weather (talking about routes like Cooper-Kor). I prefer to go as light as possible, sans bivy gear or stove. I am not going to carry trigger wire kits nor can I afford to stop and mess with broken trigger wires. I was hoping for a more definitive explanation, i.e. that the wires were coincidentally both at their breaking point when the weighted rope rubbed up against them. Sounds like that could not be determined. Anyone want our links, you are welcome to contact me through MP. I removed all negative reviews as they all related to OP's responsiveness and Lane obviously fixed that. I stand by my comments about REI. I just find that weird, but am not much of a fan, so not bothered by it much. (suppose to be member owned...yeah, sure, naivety reigns supreme) As for the chest thumping and name calling....I just once, just once wish one of you tough guy MP keyboard addicts carried the same attitude when I met you in the field....I am the same ass hole on line that I am in person, no different. It would be so entertaining if one of these cats could follow through with his fake bravado when meeting me in person...Rob, Killis....please introduce me to one some day. I got what I needed...the thread is now yours....you hard core MFers....lol


Quoted for posterity.

Mistaking where one currently lives as an indicator of ones intellectual or climbing ability is your folly, not mine. Mistaking intellectual criticism and debate online as some "physical challenge" or "masculine bravado" is, again, your mistake, not mine.


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