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Apr 25, 2012
Grande Grotto
Damn if this isn't a coincidence...

RC.com Link Cam failure post from April, 16th.
mattm
From TX
Joined Jun 2, 2006
1,238 points
Apr 25, 2012
Dow Williams wrote:
This is my last resort.


I assume since this is your last resort you called OP, maybe sent an email, and got no response? Or as you said they "refused to comment" when you talked to them?
Jeremy Kasmann
From Denver, CO
Joined Nov 21, 2007
4 points
Apr 25, 2012
Grahh! There be a human in my Throne!
Has he stated anywhere how long he waited for a response from OP? Did Dow just mail the cam out and put this post up the next day or wait a week or what?
I mean if you want an in depth analysis of why it broke it might take longer then a few days. And probably need more information then you gave them.
Do you expect them to just right away say 'oh yeah that is a defect with the cams!' If it is something new that you brought to their attention they will want to do some Quality control tests on a sampling of other cams to see if it is a real problem or if it was just a bad placement or something. That stuff takes time to figure out and especially if it could be a huge problem for the company, they will want to make sure their response is correct before making an official statement.
Tim C
From Lakewood, CO
Joined Nov 17, 2007
209 points
Apr 25, 2012
OP and Dow should be in touch by now- I chatted with OP this am and they're addressing the issue as we speak. John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 1, 2004
2,395 points
Apr 25, 2012
mawiage
Hombre,

You've got to work on your editing and presentation!

Your original post made it unclear exactly what your gripe was because it's so hard to read, and your refusal to give up at least the story or provide relevant data such as the time elapsed since you got in touch with OP is more aggravating than thought provoking.

We want to care about the alleged unresponsiveness of Omega Pacific, but we can't care until we know more about the situation!

Ya gotta provide the details of what's actually happening, and work on your writing!
the Oracle
From Delphi
Joined May 19, 2011
30 points
Apr 25, 2012
Great story!! Thanks for explaining the placement, fall distance, and the photos of the broken cam and description of how it failed were great. It was especially interesting since it wasn't the kind of placement Omega Pacific have already publicly stated can lead to a failure.

.... oh wait, we got none of that. So you're just wasting our time.
MikeJ
Joined Aug 4, 2011
5 points
Apr 25, 2012
Sign near the Third Flatiron
mattm wrote:


Send that to me. I can fix it good as new for a small fee. All work guaranteed.
Chris D
From the couch
Joined Apr 14, 2009
2,236 points
Apr 25, 2012
Dow Williams, 2011
John Wilder wrote:
OP and Dow should be in touch by now- I chatted with OP this am and they're addressing the issue as we speak.


John is correct. My "last resort" did get their attention. I have received an email indicating they are now interested in the issue. I will withhold my opinion or any other statements on the matter until I have completed any communication with the appropriate parties. Everything I have stated thus far is factual. I don't speculate when it comes to forensics on gear on the internet with avatars. If I was talking to you in person, it would obviously be different. You can keep bouncing back and forth between yourselves, but I will wait to see what OP does from this point forward. I will report back once I get their opinion on the cam based on my observations in the field.

So we are clear, I of anyone, would rather not lose faith in the link cams and retire my lot. I would much rather keep them in use and never hesitate to reach for them. Their versatility saves me considerable ounces on big alpine routes. In my opinion, I had given OP more than adequate time to respond and/or at least acknowledge receipt of the cam. Better late than never is acceptable in this case of course.
Dow Williams
From St. George, Utah; Canmore, AB
Joined Mar 13, 2006
186 points
Apr 25, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life
Lucidity and Clarity. They're not just words that both end in "y". Look up the definitions and start incorporating the concepts into your everyday communication. You'll thank me later.

Seriously - this was the most circular, continuous string of nonsensical and oddly-worded posts I've read yet on MP.



Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Joined Apr 26, 2009
101 points
Apr 27, 2012
Hello, All ...

I'm the sales & marketing director for Omega Pacific and found this thread on Wednesday. We're pretty prompt to respond to any returns--particularly when there could be broken gear involved--so I was alarmed to read it.

I looked into it right away and found that we'd received Dow's cam a week earlier--on the 17th--and called him twice, leaving him a message that he, apparently didn't receive. I contacted Dow via email on Wednesday, though, and we exchanged a couple of messages about what had happened and his cam was repaired and returned that day.

The nature of the damage to the cam was a pair of broken trigger cables, which is unfortunate and certainly inconvenient, but not all together uncommon. Sometimes, when cables get bent near the swage, they become brittle and fibers can break. We replaced all four cables with freshies, gave the cam a tune-up and sent it back to him within about eight days of receiving it.

Everything seems to have gone according to our return policies on this one, save that Dow didn't get the phone message we sent him on the 18th, and we regret that. We're glad, though, that the damage to the cam was not structural, an easy fix and was returned within 10 days, as per our typical turnaround goal.

We are always available to discuss any concerns or questions about our gear, so please feel free to contact me at the coordinates below.

--Lane
Omega Pacific
info@omegapac.com (attn: Lane in subject line)
1.800.360.3990


MichaelLane
Joined Apr 27, 2012
0 points
Apr 27, 2012
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
DexterRutecki
From Cincinnati, Ohio
Joined Mar 23, 2012
3 points
Administrator
Apr 27, 2012
Bouldering in Joshua Tree
In the end this thread will go down as one of the best 'awww deeeaaamnnn' threads on this site :-) I think now we know the real reason why more information wasn't furnished up front. Colin Parker
From Idyllwild, CA
Joined Mar 16, 2008
1,824 points
Apr 27, 2012
Gunking
I can't believe Omega Pacific even dealt with the guys broken trigger wire. One of my Metolius cams has a frayed trigger wire that I repaired with climbing tape. Should I be posting vague gear failure reports on every site that will allow it? JohnWesely
From Red River Gorge
Joined Nov 21, 2009
673 points
Apr 27, 2012
Having fun at the Enchanted Tower.
JohnWesely wrote:
I can't believe Omega Pacific even dealt with the guys broken trigger wire. One of my Metolius cams has a frayed trigger wire that I repaired with climbing tape. Should I be posting vague gear failure reports on every site that will allow it?



I called them up for a replacement trigger wire kit and they had me send in the cam and fixed it along with a good cam cleaning. I had it back in a week with no charge for the service. This was on a three or four year cam that has been heavily used. I have found their customer service outstanding.

I don't carry the Red and Yellow much anymore. I have found the purple and green ones invaluable on my rack.
John Farrell
From Phoenix, AZ
Joined Jan 26, 2009
32 points
Apr 27, 2012
alaska
Dow Williams wrote:
John is correct. My "last resort" did get their attention. I have received an email indicating they are now interested in the issue. I will withhold my opinion or any other statements on the matter until I have completed any communication with the appropriate parties. Everything I have stated thus far is factual. I don't speculate when it comes to forensics on gear on the internet with avatars. If I was talking to you in person, it would obviously be different. You can keep bouncing back and forth between yourselves, but I will wait to see what OP does from this point forward. I will report back once I get their opinion on the cam based on my observations in the field. So we are clear, I of anyone, would rather not lose faith in the link cams and retire my lot. I would much rather keep them in use and never hesitate to reach for them. Their versatility saves me considerable ounces on big alpine routes. In my opinion, I had given OP more than adequate time to respond and/or at least acknowledge receipt of the cam. Better late than never is acceptable in this case of course.


I find it strange/interesting/scary that you climb "big alpine routes" yet you can't tell the difference between a structural vs non-structural part of the cam. It's a damn trigger wire!
agd
Joined Mar 31, 2010
30 points
Apr 27, 2012
One of my first trad climbs, Ooga Chocka at Crowde...
MichaelLane wrote:
The nature of the damage to the cam was a pair of broken trigger cables


IN YO FACE
IN YO FACE
sanz
From Raleigh, NC
Joined Nov 7, 2011
279 points
Apr 27, 2012
Grande Grotto
Colin Parker wrote:
In the end this thread will go down as one of the best 'awww deeeaaamnnn' threads on this site :-) I think now we know the real reason why more information wasn't furnished up front.


100% agree. If you go back and re-read Dow's posts, all the while knowing it's a broken TRIGER WIRE, one realizes the level of teenage melodrama he spewed about NOTHING.

Seriously? You retired your entire rack of link cams because OP didn't get back to you within a WEEK about a broken trigger wire?

To Quote Boomer - "C'mon Man!"
mattm
From TX
Joined Jun 2, 2006
1,238 points
Apr 28, 2012
Dow Williams, 2011
lol, a sampling from Georgia, Texas and a kid with a tic list of 5.6's....so typical of a MP gear thread and why I never participate....

I appreciate Lane getting to me, as a result of this thread. I received the cam yesterday but am still laying down the links...due to what I examined reading other reviews as well as my experience.

I never said it was a structural break....for the record, Lane is as perplexed as I about what caused both triggers to fry at the same time. I was looking for answers more than a fixed cam. I was leading two folks. One needed lowered on a crux pitch, both were brought up into one device simultaneously. The lowered rope ran across the the gear on the none lowering rope. It was fully weighted of course, at an overhang. A climbing rope busting trigger wires via friction is something I had never seen nor expected, yet had to lower many folks over the years for one reason or another. Although I cannot claim that BD, Metolius or Trango might not react the same way...both Lane and I don't believe friction from nylon, even against rock, should bust trigger wires. That being said, trigger wires do get frail from packing and re-packing your rack, bending and re-bending. This could be a coincidence, both popping. My issue is that I originally started using the links since their inception for use on big routes in the Bugaboos...where we are almost always up against time, particulary measured against daylight and weather (talking about routes like Cooper-Kor). I prefer to go as light as possible, sans bivy gear or stove. I am not going to carry trigger wire kits nor can I afford to stop and mess with broken trigger wires. I was hoping for a more definitive explanation, i.e. that the wires were coincidentally both at their breaking point when the weighted rope rubbed up against them. Sounds like that could not be determined.

Anyone want our links, you are welcome to contact me through MP. I removed all negative reviews as they all related to OP's responsiveness and Lane obviously fixed that. I stand by my comments about REI. I just find that weird, but am not much of a fan, so not bothered by it much. (suppose to be member owned...yeah, sure, naivety reigns supreme)

As for the chest thumping and name calling....I just once, just once wish one of you tough guy MP keyboard addicts carried the same attitude when I met you in the field....I am the same ass hole on line that I am in person, no different. It would be so entertaining if one of these cats could follow through with his fake bravado when meeting me in person...Rob, Killis....please introduce me to one some day.

I got what I needed...the thread is now yours....you hard core MFers....lol
Dow Williams
From St. George, Utah; Canmore, AB
Joined Mar 13, 2006
186 points
Apr 28, 2012
Gunking
Dow Williams wrote:
lol, a sampling from Georgia, Texas and a kid with a tic list of 5.6's


I am assuming you are making a jab at the South for being full of ignorant rednecks. You might want to look in the mirror.
JohnWesely
From Red River Gorge
Joined Nov 21, 2009
673 points
Apr 28, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life
Dow Williams wrote:
lol, a sampling from Georgia, Texas and a kid with a tic list of 5.6's


This may shock you, but most people probably don't update their tick lists religiously so that they can impress badasses like you.

Dow Williams wrote:
As for the chest thumping and name calling....I just once, just once wish one of you tough guy MP keyboard addicts carried the same attitude when I met you in the field....I am the same ass hole on line that I am in person, no different. It would be so entertaining if one of these cats could follow through with his fake bravado when meeting me in person...Rob, Killis....please introduce me to one some day. I got what I needed...the thread is now yours....you hard core MFers....lol


I'll be passing through San Jorge in two weeks on my way to Red Rock. Message me if you want me to stop by your place. I'll tell you to your face that you're a quasi-literate tool whose braggadocio and desperate attempts at badassery are only made more hilarious by the fact that you're a 48 year old man who uses "lol" like a 13 year old girl. I can be even more of a dick in person.

Hugs and Kisses,
Austin
Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Joined Apr 26, 2009
101 points
Apr 28, 2012
trigger wires go poofy ... thats why BD sells trigger wire kits .... ive had the fun of using them a few times ... the shop in squamish usually has a whole rack of cams of various types under repair for triggers ... bearbreeder
Joined Mar 1, 2009
2,153 points
Apr 28, 2012
Haven't ya'll ever heard the term, "respect your elders." Check out summitpost for a some beta on routes in the Canadian Rockies, Nevada, and Utah. Dow's put in more time/effort than many of us will do in our climbing careers.

Dow's got quite a bit of experience under his belt, had a problem w/ his gear, and wanted a answer. Seems pretty simple to me. The omega link cams have had particular problems with their trigger/wire systems, significantly on the 1st generation cams, but since have been much improved.

Austin, I live 10 minutes from Red Rocks, you can find me in the Canyons 3-4 x/week, usually "shirtless." Better assemble your crew!

Cheers dow!

And yes, I stole this photo from the nevada forum, just couldn't resist.
Assemble your crew.
Assemble your crew.
Rob Fielding
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined May 8, 2011
240 points
Apr 29, 2012
Grande Grotto
Dow Williams wrote:
lol, a sampling from Georgia, Texas and a kid with a tic list of 5.6's....so typical of a MP gear thread and why I never participate.... I appreciate Lane getting to me, as a result of this thread. I received the cam yesterday but am still laying down the links...due to what I examined reading other reviews as well as my experience. I never said it was a structural break....for the record, Lane is as perplexed as I about what caused both triggers to fry at the same time. I was looking for answers more than a fixed cam. I was leading two folks. One needed lowered on a crux pitch, both were brought up into one device simultaneously. The lowered rope ran across the the gear on the none lowering rope. It was fully weighted of course, at an overhang. A climbing rope busting trigger wires via friction is something I had never seen nor expected, yet had to lower many folks over the years for one reason or another. Although I cannot claim that BD, Metolius or Trango might not react the same way...both Lane and I don't believe friction from nylon, even against rock, should bust trigger wires. That being said, trigger wires do get frail from packing and re-packing your rack, bending and re-bending. This could be a coincidence, both popping. My issue is that I originally started using the links since their inception for use on big routes in the Bugaboos...where we are almost always up against time, particulary measured against daylight and weather (talking about routes like Cooper-Kor). I prefer to go as light as possible, sans bivy gear or stove. I am not going to carry trigger wire kits nor can I afford to stop and mess with broken trigger wires. I was hoping for a more definitive explanation, i.e. that the wires were coincidentally both at their breaking point when the weighted rope rubbed up against them. Sounds like that could not be determined. Anyone want our links, you are welcome to contact me through MP. I removed all negative reviews as they all related to OP's responsiveness and Lane obviously fixed that. I stand by my comments about REI. I just find that weird, but am not much of a fan, so not bothered by it much. (suppose to be member owned...yeah, sure, naivety reigns supreme) As for the chest thumping and name calling....I just once, just once wish one of you tough guy MP keyboard addicts carried the same attitude when I met you in the field....I am the same ass hole on line that I am in person, no different. It would be so entertaining if one of these cats could follow through with his fake bravado when meeting me in person...Rob, Killis....please introduce me to one some day. I got what I needed...the thread is now yours....you hard core MFers....lol


Quoted for posterity.

Mistaking where one currently lives as an indicator of ones intellectual or climbing ability is your folly, not mine. Mistaking intellectual criticism and debate online as some "physical challenge" or "masculine bravado" is, again, your mistake, not mine.
mattm
From TX
Joined Jun 2, 2006
1,238 points
Apr 29, 2012
Middle
Dow's climbing speaks for itself, regardless of what anyone thinks about this thread. besides, this thread doesn't exist in a vacuum, historically there has been a lot of problems with link cams. Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Joined Jul 23, 2010
130 points
Apr 29, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life
Ray Pinpillage wrote:
Dow's climbing speaks for itself



That may be the case; but it only speaks for itself when the issue being discussed is climbing ability and\or experience. When the issue being discussed is the ability to cogently and intelligently provide information or make an argument, climbing ability doesn't matter. When the issue being discussed is

mattm wrote:
Mistaking where one currently lives as an indicator of ones intellectual or climbing ability is your folly, not mine. Mistaking intellectual criticism and debate online as some "physical challenge" or "masculine bravado" is, again, your mistake, not mine.


then once again, climbing ability doesn't matter. I respect people for their climbing ability and experience, but that excuses neither the vague, ambiguous posts Dow was making nor his risible attempt at geographic denigration. If someone is a dick (remember - Dow told me I have no business being on this thread because I have several 5.6s on my tick list) then I'll return the favor. I don't give a rat's ass what sort of FAs he has after his name or how many 13s he's climbed - none of that gives him the right to be an asshole.
Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Joined Apr 26, 2009
101 points


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