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Oak Creek Waterfall bolting problem
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May 3, 2013
nice write up, and zebra tights. John D
Joined Nov 24, 2010
21 points
May 3, 2013
Rock Climbing Photo: Where do I go?
Marty, it is not a climbing area. That would have been created by climbers. The whole thing is a travesty. But your calling it a climbing area does not help.

As Eric D stated earlier, it is probably a Rescue person or climbing organization using it to teach something. Or a mad bolter practicing his craft. Either way, it is not a climbing area.
manuel rangel
From Tempe, Arizona
Joined Jan 27, 2006
3,689 points
May 3, 2013
Rock Climbing Photo: Whitney portal.....bony fingers
hmmmmm lets see,,, some of us can throw up hundreds of bolts wherever we want.. in the name of their ego.... on any remote area of boulders that should have no business being bolted (northern devils canyon).. to make some money.... but god forbid anyone else bolt for any other reason.... really if i want to throw up some bolts for a hammock ... so be it.... the world does not revolve around you and your principles.... get down off your self righteous high horse....

lou
lou
Joined Feb 13, 2006
80 points
May 3, 2013
lou wrote:
hmmmmm lets see,,, some of us can throw up hundreds of bolts wherever we want.. in the name of their ego.... on any remote area of boulders that should have no business being bolted (northern devils canyon).. to make some money.... but god forbid anyone else bolt for any other reason.... really if i want to throw up some bolts for a hammock ... so be it.... the world does not revolve around you and your principles.... get down off your self righteous high horse.... lou


+1!
Jeff Kent
From Sedona, Az
Joined Oct 10, 2012
5 points
May 3, 2013
Rock Climbing Photo: yup...
Lou,

I don't think anyone is approaching this from a self righteous angle. I can't speak for anyone other than myself, BUT it seems that folks are concerned about the situation similar to the way one might be upset with spray paint or litter. It doesn't seem like there's going to be a chop war on the "world's shortest sport routes", but there could possibly be a solution that all parties will agree upon...and what's wrong with that?
guy bon
Joined Mar 8, 2010
2,521 points
May 3, 2013
Rock Climbing Photo: twister roof, Flagstaff, AZ
Lou is right.... NOT!! comparing ROUTES to heinous bolting litter is not even remotely the same, climbers who are stewards to the community, creating routes and maps and clearing trails rarely do so to feed their ego, unless their ego thrives off sweat and blood... Nicholas Oxentenko
Joined Sep 19, 2009
20 points
May 3, 2013
Rock Climbing Photo: tanuki
lou wrote:
hmmmmm lets see,,, some of us can throw up hundreds of bolts wherever we want.. in the name of their ego.... on any remote area of boulders that should have no business being bolted (northern devils canyon).. to make some money.... but god forbid anyone else bolt for any other reason.... really if i want to throw up some bolts for a hammock ... so be it.... the world does not revolve around you and your principles.... get down off your self righteous high horse.... lou



100% agree! I am not defending the bolts at the Waterfall, but think all the self-rightous outrage is as hypocritical as it gets.
NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Joined Dec 6, 2009
71 points
May 8, 2013
Rock Climbing Photo: zebra power
Lou,

Northern Devils Canyon is considered part of the Queen Creek area which is National Forest land. Many of your friends have bolted routes all over the Queen Creek area as well. The climbs in Northern devils are awesome routes up to 90' tall and were put up by many climbing groups. The area is remote requiring a 1/2 mile hike in. Only three stores in town carry the map which I have grossed $150 over the last 4 years. Big money!

I hold no titles, not with the QCC or any organization, just a climber enjoying the freedom of climbingÂ…Â…and you are mad at that?
karabin museum
From phoenix. AZ
Joined Aug 5, 2009
677 points
May 8, 2013
1/2 mile hike is remote? If I visit the area, should one just bring a bivy, or expect to bring a full tent/camping setup? robrobrobrob
Joined Oct 23, 2012
10 points
May 9, 2013
Rock Climbing Photo: Great quality rock on this one!
I wouldn't describe Northern Devil's as being remote (esp being under power line) but there are some really fun routes there. To say that anyone put in hundreds of dollars of hardware into the place to make a profit is ludicrous at best. I would personally like to thank MK for all that he has done. Many of the fold outs have provided me with cheap, efficient beta/topos and for that I am grateful. Mark Mueller
From Flagstaff, AZ
Joined Nov 4, 2011
206 points
May 9, 2013
Rock Climbing Photo: tower fever
Crazy question could they be bolts for a slackline setup ? Looks sorta like it could be, from the pictures this has been going since I visited last. Have seen setups similar for slacklineing dan zika
From jax wy
Joined May 27, 2009
6 points
May 10, 2013
Rock Climbing Photo: Crux first move. Photo by Jake Croft.
dan zika wrote:
Crazy question could they be bolts for a slackline setup ? Looks sorta like it could be, from the pictures this has been going since I visited last. Have seen setups similar for slacklineing

I have never seen a slackline anchor setup require 40+ bolts. Not to mention, the "cliff" is 10 feet or less, making it completely idiotic to highline there, not to mention the plethora of natural anchors available for what would essentially be a slackline no higher than what could be set up at your local park.
Alex McIntyre
From Tucson, AZ
Joined Jan 14, 2011
415 points
Jun 27, 2013
i have lived here for all 21 years of my life and have a great appreciation on different levels than just climbing here. I learned how to swim in in this swimming hole. Oak Creek Canyon is my back yard, while you drive 3 hours to climb on weekends at the water fall i ride my bike there afterwork on weekdays while no one is there. There are way bigger threats to access here than those bolts. i pick up trash on the regular here after weekends as the population of climbers has multiplied like crazy this year. i passed 13 jeeps on the way out to the great wall earlier this week, lets fight that before sedona starts to look like Moab. I know a lot about these bolts and why they are there except who put them there because they have been placed by many different people over many years. No one person is to blame, thats why there are so many different types of bolts and bolting styles here. I understand everyones confusion and anger about this but you all are very ignorant on the subject. This is not at all ment to be a climbing area this is solely for Rescue training and some Rope access training has been done here. This area has been utilized for this for as long or longer than climbers have been climbing at the waterfall and before OCC was a tourist trap. People from as far as Australia and Japan have trained on these bolts. Many of you have probably clipped bolts on classic routes placed by the same people who placed these years ago. Many of the bolts have been loaded in the wrong direction from climbers trying to top rope on them and resulted in spinners. these bolts were place to build complicated rope systems on, far more complex than even the average route developer can comprehend, this is why some of the bolts are in spots that seem strange. the bolt in the 120 lb rock is not ment to be loaded but picked up by a complex rope system and moved to different locations as a training exercise it was incredibly stupid for the Original Poster to rappel off of that, come on dude!!!!! if you have problem here stay in phx and burn, your not helping. Don't blame ropes that rescue for these bolts they remove bad and smashed bolts and fight to protect access for climbers, and clean up sedona. Have you seen the sign on the way into the canyon? In my own opinion i would rather see a myriad of bolts placed by TR teams right off the side of a road that sees far to much traffic right down stream from an ugly campground on a creek that struggles to fight against high e coli levels, then in a pristine isolated wilderness location. Lets fight to clean up the creek instead of bitching about a few pieces of metal in the rock next to an asphalt road.
The anvils were first climbed by the Sedona Fire TR team, they developed the trails and wrote topos published in a cheap way to die they also trained there and thats what the big bolts are on top of gendarme (the big boulder alien baby is on) as for all the others as far as i know they are top rope bolts poorly placed by climbers.
I have established dozens of slackline high lines in OCC, Sedona and all around AZ including a line over the Dr.s Office and off the top of the winsloner across the canyon. If anyone finds any highline bolts that they have an issue with please contact me about it to find a solution, i'd like to make sure no bolting war ever develops between slackliners and climbers in AZ.
On a final note if anyone need's a partner here in sedona send me a message!
shredthered
Joined Jun 27, 2013
78 points
Jun 27, 2013
guy bon wrote:
Going from CT to Sedona was like a vegan first witnessing the results of the atkins diet.


never tell anyone this ever again. say you are from VT instead.
T Roper
From DC,VA,NM,UT,CT,MA
Joined Mar 31, 2006
1,062 points
Feb 24, 2016
Since its been a quiet minute since the last Tamtrum... Ill bite. First it should be noted that C.C. does not sit in Slide Rock State Park, rather in an outlying area just like the other dozen or so sport climbs in the general vicinity. Bolts were placed by hand drill, I even tried to do the first 3 ground up solo, got too gnar so I resorted to coming in from above on the final bolt...Sportz. All hangers are painted a fine hue of Sedona Mud Red Dirt Brown, hardly an eye sore unless you're looking. In fact I believe one of the hangers even has a grained texture on it. Bonus Camo if I do say so myself. Comparing this to the mess that is the Waterfall zone or The Arch is null and far reaching at best.

The Q.D.s that are currently hanging are not mine nor are they anyone's who has recently tried the route. In fact, since the mega famous- world renown million dollar FA of this line I have gone back twice to remove draws that have randomly shown up on the route. Only because I think that pre-hung draws is for sportz-clambers.

So... I suppose we agree. This is a very special place. One of the best hangs for sure. Small, quaint, and secluded. It should be treated with respect but also enjoyed. I suppose if it becomes a real issue, removing the bolts, bouldering it out all sik-ropeless, and renaming it Cowgirl Club wouldn't even make me mad. Hell it even make for a proud top rope.

On a side note: If I took your draws off and they are yours let me know Ill return them. If they are currently hanging on the route, contact Tam, I believe she will be the next person to drop in and clean them off for you.
J. Snyder
From Flagstaff, Arizona
Joined May 25, 2011
3,379 points
Feb 24, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Born again on the last move of the Red Dihedral, h...
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you Jeff for all you have done as our AAC rep. You've been awesome! Clean-ups, forks fests, slideshows, putting up rad routes (Southern Revival, ah!!!), Alpine Follies, and cleaning up lots and lots of bananas. You da' man! Eric D
From Gnarnia
Joined Nov 29, 2006
242 points
Feb 24, 2016
robrobrobrob wrote:
1/2 mile hike is remote? If I visit the area, should one just bring a bivy, or expect to bring a full tent/camping setup?
just simul the approach & you can clean up in a long day.
Avalon'cha
From your girlfriend's bedroom
Joined Aug 30, 2013
3 points
Feb 24, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Closing in on my one and only .12 send on gear!
Did I just see something about pulling bolts at the waterfall? I sure hope not. Maybe I just read that wrong. JMo
From Tucson, AZ
Joined Jan 12, 2009
1,105 points


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