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Nutrition Questions - Dairy products

Original Post
SirTobyThe3rd M · · Salt Lake City · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 2,100

So I started reading articles on climbstrong. Seems like a great site with a variety of good tips on training and nutrition.

In this particular article I linked below they suggest having only one serving of dairy and fruits a day. Does anyone here know why regarding dairy in particular?
I am trying to cut some weight at the moment and started to replace my morning meal, which was fairly big on rice, meat, and other crap. So I replaced it with 100 calorie (0% fat) greek yogurt mixed with a diced apple, nuts and berries. I do a similar meal for dinner sometimes. Mix a serving of Kashi GoLean cereal (3 g fat, 9 g Protein, 8 g Fiber, 19 g Whole Grains) with some berries and a 100 calorie greek yogurt. For after climbing sessions I also add about 15g of whey protein to that meal and have it about two hours after my workout (after the workout I usually eat a banana with about 25g worth of whey protein as a quick recovery meal)...At times I eat salmon/vegetables and a little bit of quinoa for diner instead of that meal. So far it has been working well, but I was wondering if people at climbstrong suggest against more than one serving of dairy that contains more fat or what? I heard some people on vegan sites state that dairy decreases your energy levels or something. Not sure how true is that. So was wondering if there is anyone on the site that knows more about the subject? Is there something negative about dairy that I am not aware of?

climbstrong.com/articles/20…

rock-fencer · · Columbia, SC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 265

Any article that suggests only one serving of fruit and 3 of vegetable per day is a tad off the mark.

to get you started on what is considered nutritionally appropriate as a base diet check out choosemyplate.gov/. they also have a food tracker

camhead · · Vandalia, Appalachia · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,240

Yeah, that article doesn't ever justify why one should just eat one serving of fruit a day. I assume it is because most fruits are high in sugar (which is a carb), even though it's the complex "good" sugars. I've not seen anywhere else a recommendation of only having one serving of fruit a day for weight loss, even if it also says you can eat as many vegetables as you want. And what the hell is the difference between a fruit and a vegetable? I know that they are saying to stay away from apples, oranges, and bananas, but seriously, squashes, tomatoes, eggplant, and peppers are also "fruit."

They probably say to limit the dairy because it is so high in fat. Also, overdoing it on dairy can be tough on a lot of folks that are even mildly lactose intolerant; I'm fortunate enough to have some dairy-loving Scandinavian genes, and right now I'm getting probably 50% or more of my daily protein from milk, cheese, and yogurt.

Short version: that site is pretty shallow, doesn't explain itself, and errs too far on the side of dumbing down its info.

Dave Bn · · Boise, ID · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 10

computer + internet connection + blog = nutritionist

jakobi · · moab, utah · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 1,155

He makes it pretty clear why he suggests cutting fruit (fructose) from the diet, as fructose raises blood-insulin levels which ultimately make you fat (The author outlines each step of this process in the article) It would be nice to see some links to research though. Obviously an eggplant is a fruit, as is an avocado; peas, beans, as they are the seed bearing vessels of plants. I think the difference he is inferring is the common one: a fruit is sweet and a vegetable is not or has low levels of sugar.

Martin le Roux · · Superior, CO · Joined Jul 2003 · Points: 401

From nytimes.com/2007/01/28/maga…

"Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

That, more or less, is the short answer to the supposedly incredibly complicated and confusing question of what we humans should eat in order to be maximally healthy."

This was later expanded into a full-length book (In Defense of Food).

aren · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 0

The article looks like typical low-carb or low-insulin diets. The idea is that insulin has a large role in fat storage, so reducing insulin results in burning more fat. You reduce insulin by eating less carbs.

However, you can also find very lean people who advocate and eat high fruit, low protein/fat diets. An interesting note is that virtually every drop fat diet seems to exclude eating lots of grains. I have no idea if that's accurate for fat loss, just that every fad diet seems to do it today.

If you are willing to alter your diet to improve your climbing, you should document your efforts and share your results. Maybe we can all learn something.

rock-fencer · · Columbia, SC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 265
jakobi wrote:Has fructose raises blood-insulin levels which ultimately make you fat
excess intake of any of the basic sugars is unhealthy...avoiding fruits in order to specifically avoid ingesting fructose (barring any disease processes that affect fructose metabolism) is not exactly the best thought out approach, as glucose is readily converted to fructose in the body anyways. Furthermore, regular sugar is metabolized to fructose and glucose. Fructose can channel down to a variety of end products not just triglycerides.

lastly fructose has a low glycemic index and actually does not raise blood insulin levels appreciably. This decreased insulin levels with increased ghrelin levels partially accounts for lack of satiety and thus intake of more calories --> leads to excess calories = getting fat
SirTobyThe3rd M · · Salt Lake City · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 2,100

Thanks for the replies. The site DOES offer the reason why it is better to eat vegetables than fruits. Reasons were mentioned above by some of the posters. Just take a bag of Broccoli and compare weight/nutrition to weight/nutrition of a banana, you will see why. But dairy is what I am thinking of now. Might be the lactose intolerant thing. Personally I get acne when I drink too much milk. But eating these Yogurts has not given me much trouble. If I get to where I want to get I will make a post about my nutrition and training regimen.

Alicia Sokolowski · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 1,781

I think they suggest limiting dairy because of the sugar. I never drink juice because I am always watching my sugar. One day I picked up a friend's coconut water and noticed it had fewer grams of sugar per 8 ounces than milk. Dr. Oz (kill me now, I am quoting Dr. Oz) recommends people on his weight loss plan drink only full fat milk because he says it's the only milk with anything valuable in it, all the rest is sugar water. I'm not saying he is right. He just represents one doctor's opinion.

SM Ryan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 1,090

The article you reference states the recommendations are for losing weight and in your post you say you are losing weight, right? (I would hope so since your diet listed seems low - I eat a lot more than that).

Anyways, you ask 10 people about dairy and you will get 10 responses.
Even the experts keep changing their mind on what to eat and not to eat. Butter and eggs were once "evil" and now there are not (unless you are a vegan). Gluten is the new one to eliminate,but everyone should eat flax and chia seeds.

If your body tolerates dairy, eat it in moderation. If you are not sure how your body responds to a food, it is easy to eliminate dairy and track how you feel, perform.

Russ Keane · · Salt Lake · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 392

Dairy is stupid.... IMO .... No need, really.

chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

climbstrong has some good stuff, but his idea that rice is good and beer is bad is sad. white rice has the highest glycimic index of any grain, second only to white bread. on the other hand, short grain brown rice has enough fiber to slow absorption.

to say bananas are bad is silly too. eating a meal of bananas would be bad, but a banana 10 minutes before a redpoint attempt is a great idea.

cow dairy is pointless and makes my allergies worse, but i do do a bit of goat and sheep.

Roxy · · Estes Park · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 55

You can learn everything you ever need to know about a healthy diet for any person, male, female, athlete, mother, or just a couch potato, by visiting ThePeoplesChemist.com

Do what he says and the results will blow you away. Warning, it goes against most of what you read in the news and diet mags, etc, but go in with an open mind, and you just might be surprised.

Shane the Peoples Chemist, is a Chemist, NOT a doctor. He knows more about how foods, medicines etc. work with the body than any doctor. He is no BS and no Hype. Check it out.

george wilkey · · travelers rest sc · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 235

dairy is extremely hard to digest even for people who are not lactose intolerant. it also creates an acidic ph in the body if you consume too much. when your body becomes too acidic it pulls calcium from the bones to bring the ph level back to neutral. this is why americans, who are one of the largest consumers of dairy, have one of the highest rates of osteoporosis and hip fractures(a sign of weak bones). the statistics don't seem to agree with the mantra: "milk, it does a body good".

our government pushes dairy because it subsidizes the dairy industry. the more dairy sold the more money the government takes in. that's why you should not get your info from a government website.

I'm not saying we should give up dairy entirely but if you stop and think about the amount of dairy most people consume; milk, cheese, sour crème, yogurt, ice cream, we could cut back a lot.

Jon Zucco · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 245

A lot of nutritionists have been anti-dairy lately, particularly concerning the recovery period (like the infamous chocolate milk prescription for the post work out drink of choice). Much of the reasoning points to the lower pH of dairy's ash (what's left of the dairy after it is metabolized is very acidic, and impacts the body's pH). This, in addition to the lactic acid produced during your workout, purportedly leaves the body in a more acidic environment than is ideal for muscle recovery. These folks usually offer this opinion up in tandem with the suggestion to stick to a more plant-based, raw, alkaline diet. So take that with a grain of salt. Plus, I'm not sure how much the "alkaline diet" is centered in substantiated science, and how much of it is just wishful thinking.

Maybe a doctor or scientist with more knowledge of this could shine some light on the subject.

Seth Eidemiller · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 0

As somebody with a bit of a chemistry background myself, I took a quick look at the "The People's Chemist." Not impressed. I do agree with some of his messages but the overall idea that you can to take a supplement and become a mom-in-a-thong or whatever it is you aspire to be automatically raises warning signs for me. The way his website was set up reminded me very much of the other nutritional companies that he was bashing. Nor did I see any actual, honest-to-god science on there. Sure he said some stuff but I wouldn't take it very far without further evidence. He is right about having a really hot wife so all the more power to him on that one.

I think health ultimately comes down to what a friend described as the holy trinity: rest, diet and exercise. I would also add the caveat that things must be balanced between those 3 components and within them.

I also believe that people have different metabolic needs. Base your diet off of common knowledge but ultimately do what works for you.

Nutrition is not that hard or complicated. People who are looking for a magic pill and those looking to make a lot of money off of that magic pill are the ones that muddy the waters.

Disclaimers: I'm a medical student. I eat a lot of cheese and drink a lot of beer and will continue to do so no matter what anybody else says.

KevinCO · · Loveland, CO · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 60

I replaced dairy/cheese with avocados a couple of years ago and feel better for it. Also, dairy is mucus producing. I never catch a 'head cold' anymore.

rense.com/general26/truth.htm

SirTobyThe3rd M · · Salt Lake City · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 2,100

Thank you guys for some really good replies. Feel very good about starting this thread! Actually learned something. It is funny, I heard many people say chocolate milk is a great for after you work out. Good to learn that it might not be the best.

Robin like the bird · · Philomath, or · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 300
Martin le Roux wrote: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants. .
Truely the best advice
+100
Moritz B. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 185

Low carb diets never did it for me. I always felt tired and hungry. As stated above, fruit and vegetable based, whole grain, only good fat, vegetarian diets seem to work the best (for me). You can also cut back on protein. Following these rules you will never have to actually feel hungry but still lose weight.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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