Is Santaquin Canyon worth visiting for rock climbing & if so what is the rock like? Awhile back I had heard that it was one of the better new areas along the Wasatch front.

At about the same time, early 90s Shane Willet and I did a few routes around the Back Off Wall. Not sure if they ever got recorded. One route I never finished. Shane may have finished it as we did that on a few routes. There are a few other in the immediate area right off the road. Farther up the road there are some more. I found the limestone in that area to be very compact and solid.

I was talking with Darren at Mountainworks about Santaquin a couple weeks ago and he was saying that there are 200 or 300 (I forget the exact number) routes there with room for a ton more. Pretty rad. Never been there myself, though. Sounds like it's worth a shot!

-Tristan

Yes,
it is odd that Santaquin, of all places (being part of the Wasatch and all) has been really left out of any guidebook soft or hard copies. Darren is correct, the potential there is huge still. I first climbed there in the late 80s and I know some of those routes get alot of traffic...even ran into some Santaquin locals there...one who was the Prom Queen who was climbing and had worked at my favorite fast food joint, the Santa Queen...which prompted an eventual unique route name. Anyway, you sound like you have been getting busy Tristan in Provo Canyon....might think about giving us some multi-pitch sport climbs down in Santaquin! It would be great.

Darren also mentioned that he had talked with other Santaquin first ascentionsts (the ones I remember him mentioning, I think, were Boyle, Pedersen, Ohran, and others) and that several of them were all for publishing a guidebook, but a couple others were against it. So yeah, the consensus was to not publish the area.

James, yeah, we're working on some longer multipitch sport stuff down here near Provo way (Rock Canyon, actually; not Provo Canyon... yet). I mean geeze, we need some way to get all you Salt Lake climbers to come down to Provo...

And I didn't know there was multipitch potential in Santaquin... Man. Add that to the long and ever-growing list... Give us a few more years and we'll have our own little Potrero Chico here in Utah county.

-Tristan

I know people feel the need to develop any piece of rock that can be seen with the naked eye, but on the other hand you have to ask yourself ( I believe before you ever drill a hole in rock) what will be left. I climb mostly in the desert where you do get a great sense of how fragile the rock really is. Look at what we have done to "The Rock" in the last century. Is this going to be climbings legacy, the potential an area has for routes, so we put some up. Anyone with a hand drill and a very basic knowledge can go blaster up routes, a climber with a good skill set will find a way not to scare that rock. I recall seeing several routes in Rock Canyon that have bolts that I can protect with a few nuts, is that ethical? If someone else can climb what you put bolts on without them, should you drill. Just because that rock is there doesn't mean you need to develop it.

I know that the mind set I hold about bolting and FA's is a little out there, but if I start seeing more bolts in Provo canyon. I will chop them. Every person must make a stand some where, that is mine. The first time I got to the top of brideviel falls and saw bolts I wanted to puke. My ideals are not popular, I do not mean to completely offend most, as climbers I believe we hold more responsibly to think about the future of the rock, not what mark we can leave on it.

My apologizes to whomever becomes upset over my comments. In 12 years of full time climbing in the state of Utah, I don't have one FA that I placed a bolt on, I have never drilled a hole (I have owned a drill for about 7 years), and I most likely won't drill a hole unless I am rescuing someone. I do clip existing bolts, if that makes me a hypocrite so be it.

Robert A. Schwarzmann

I know this topic may not be that place for this post.

Hi Robert A.,
I feel your pain...I really do. The questions you pose are the big questions in a way aren't they? I have climbed 3 times as long as you have, not that longevity really makes a difference, but I can empathize with your trad longings. But I have a few questions and points that may differ from yours.
1.I would feel it sad if you started a bolt war in the Wasatch.
2. I think it is great you have climbed alot in the desert, but how did you get down from your FAs? You decided to fix Camalots instead of bolts in holes?
3. Bolting in limestone has become commonplace...even staunch tradists like from the desert or granite enclaves (like Kurt Smith) with more than a few traditionalists like Yosemite, routinely bolt next to cracks when it comes to limestone. Many argue that gear in limestone is basically worthless...but then again, some will agree with you that safety isn't that important for climbing.
4. Sounds like you don't sport climb. We are talking about limestone bolt protected sport climbs here, NOT alpine limestone Canadian Rockies type climbs.
5. I have taken a whipper on chossy limetone on gear. It failed, and I don't trust gear in limestone like I once did.
Anyway, I am glad that Utah offers all of us plenty of options...including placing bolts. I am sure that if you have certain trad FAs in Santaquin...let us know where they are so we don't retrobolt them...it is a common problem you know when people keep their crags a secret and then express horror later to find bolts on them! Their tears are in vain. Layton Kor used to say he needed to climb the desert sandstone towers before they fell over...maybe we need to put up routes on all the untouched rock before the world ends...one way or another! Maybe we have bigger issues to worry about! I think Tristans new and popular limestone multi-pitch routes in Rock Canyon are great additons. I bet you might even enjoy them...check it out!
jg

I can understand this mindset when talking about bolting next to features that can be protected with trad gear

This is the thing that upsets me. This can also be said for bolt ladders put in with only 'getting to the top' in mind versus bolting with free climbing from natural stances.

There is such a spectrum of opinions out there. Best to try and work person to person with the bolter at the site.

James said it well - no one wants a bolt war in the Wasatch.

It seems that the discussions has gotten a bit off track, although some good information has surfaced. 200-300 routes sounds like a worthy destination. Having done many of the American Fork climbs already, I was looking for something new. Is Santaquin pocketed like AF and are the crags reasonably easy to find without the aid of a guidebook?

Tzilla Rapdrilla, go explore and have some fun,take a bail biner or two,and enjoy the adventure. Then let Us know where the routes are!:)

Robert where are some of your routes that you have put up? I would love to check out some of your work! I too would be interested in seeing how you get back to the ground every time. Does this limit you to only doing FA's of routes with trees or big boulders at the top,or only ones with walk offs?

Population growth=need for new routes
Gym climbers=sport climbers
Sport climbers=bolts
This is not meant as an ethics argument ,at all! Just a reality we need to grasp.
All FA's hold the responsibility to honor climbing's rich history, and to continually refine and raise our ethical standards.

Thanks for the info. If there really are 1000 routes it's unfortunate that nothing has been published as the fact that climbing is occurring cannot be a secret to land managers. I would suspect that the popularity of AF is also driven by its proximity to the major population center.

Tzilla-
I'd be willing to give you a tour of Santaquin if you want sometime. At least show you where the Red Wonder Wall is and the various walls there.
Sundays are often good for me.

This is off the original subject of Santaquin canyon, but in regards to the comments made by Robert A., James, and Tristan, why is it that every bit of naked rock has to be bolted, namely in Rock Canyon? Half the climbs up there are on the worse possible rock, and it seems that people are in a bolting frenzy just to brag about putting up their own routes. I'm surprised the best crack climbs haven't been bolted with all the crap up there; I would definitely chop them if that ever happened. Now I know several of the people who are truly passionate about putting up routes in Rock Canyon and enjoy most of their work, but for those who just bolt anything give it a rest!

As far as Robert's comments on chopping just any bolt...that's a little extreme. And I'm not sure which bolts you're referring to above Bridal Veil Falls, but for those of us who also do ice climbing in the winter, we use those bolts to rap down, otherwise we'd all have to leave webbing up there in the rock and ice which would quickly become a mess.

Mr Sock,
As for the new routes in Rock Canyon, I've done a few of them at the Throne, The Wild and others and liked them all, even the chossy ones at AC/DC and Training Camp.
I've talked to quite a few other people who have been digging the new stuff as well.
The folks who ahve been putting all this stuff up have put A LOT of work and money into it in what seems to me to be a largely altruistic endeavor.
As for the motivations that you ascribe to the new route developers, it isn't always valid to just take wild ass guesses but you're probably right that ego might be a factor. If it is, so what? There's nothing wrong with being proud of your contribution to the community. I say, lets give them their props.

I'm just curious, is it that you find bolts to be unsightly in general, or you just don't like the new routes that are there or what?

Regarding Roberts post above, I'm not trying to be controversial but it seems to me that he simply wants to impose his preferences on others.

Well I knew I'd get under someone's skin about Rock Canyon. I've just been spoiled since I learned to climb in Red River Gorge where there are so many awesome climbs close to each other that I'm not used to Utah Rock yet, so John you're right that people see rock differently. I'm not sure which limestone Tristan is refering to as being better than AF, but I'd sure like to see it. I will say that the stuff higher up in the canyon is far better with the exception of a few climbs near the mouth, but that should be kept secret as I'd rather all the visitors just stay at Red Slab rather than having to wait in line at the Hidden or something. In regards to Darrell's comments, I welcome the sight of bolts, and it makes me all warm inside to know that others share the passion that I do, however I'm still blown away by the large number of routes bolted on such...not so good...rock. It seems like a total waste. An example is a 5.13 at the AC/DC wall that just crumbled like a sand castle while trying to get under the roof, and while pulling over the roof the one large jug completely exploded like it was made of sugar. Someone later told me that they have since cemented a new hold where I tore that one off, hope it holds better. It just goes to show you everyone has their preferences.

You make some good points sock puppet.

But, it sounds like you tore all the holds off the 5.13 at AC/DC wall.
Now it's 5.14.
I can't climb 5.14 so I'll cross it off my to-do list.