Rough,

It sounds like run-out mindcontrol type climbing is not your thing. Fair enough.

For many other climbers, the B-Y is an inspiration because of the mental game it represents. 99% of climbers will never be able to touch that route, including myself. But, that route has opened many eyes to what is possible. To what a climber can do when mind and body come together. Yerian blew my mind and many others at a slideshow discussing the B-Y at the Seneca Chili cook-off 10 years ago or so. 40 people in small gear shop in the Appalachian mountains were floored.

Yes, more people would climb it if it were well bolted. They would climb it, say "that was great" and then move on to the next route. Instead, the way it is now, it has pushed the limits for our sport, has inspired thousands of us, and made us start to understand what we are capable of. To me, and many others, that means infinitely more than another bolted sport climb ever would.

Wow - yet another B-Y internet thread. There must be 1000's. I say we chop it and grind all the holds off! There are in fact many other bolted climbs adjacent to the B-Y. They're well bolted and a few are relatively moderate. You probably didn't know that, though, because nobody gives a shit about them. Go figure.

shawn, it isn't about bolting the BY, i could care less. it's about this:

I don't know slim. I have watched and admired John Bachar's climbing--in person a number of times--since I was maybe 15 or 16 years old. But after the stone master fell, any climber who wasn't thinking and maybe questioning himself about some of the same issues Rough raised just isn't thinking very deeply. I don't really see the disrespect.

If you come to a different conclusion from Bachar, Croft, or Honnold (all of whom I regard as The Man) on such profound questions, I'm not sure how you'd discuss the issue without risking the sound of "blame." But it's not blame, it's acknowledgment. Grandma didn't deserve to die, but she did, and more will if we celebrate driving like the little old lady from Pasadena. It might be a price worth risking, and it's a decision every climber makes for himself. But don't demonize the discussion. You can't see the big picture with one eye closed.

a) shawn, it was the TONE of his comments. read them, are they not antagonistic? i don't, in any way, condone free soloing. but, i also don't thump my chest and say "see, i told you" when somebody has a soloing accident.

dave, did i threaten to shiv anybody? let's work on our reading comprehension skills here a bit.

kind of stretching it there david. what i am saying is, if 'someone' made a comment like that, 'they' would get called on it. hard.

LOL. Break it up guys. David, you're safe in New England. I'll test the waters here in Colorado. Slim, let's climb. I'm kind of an outspoken guy, so, it'll be a great test of a lot of things:

Will I get shived?
Would climbers be more likely to come to my aid in Boulder or in Grand Junction?
What rescue service will 911 send?
How badly will the media botch the reporting?
Will an incident of climber violence threaten access to the crag?
Will the incident get reported on MP in "Accidents and Injuries" or in "Community Forum"?

Ok, one more hypothetical. If I was a freesolo hardman, which I definitely am not, and I go solo some unclimbed line up a crack-free face, and claim to have established the route in my own, gear-free style, does that mean that I get the rights to the rock forever and the route must stay bolt free because I soloed it once? I respect what JB accomplished, I don't want to retrobolt the route, but I disagree with the notion that a first ascensionist owns the rock forever.

I have climbed this route and (not to be the arrogant boulderer who thinks every V7 should be down-graded to V1+ after he climbs it...) Ill just say one thing...

It really isn't that bad. I would venture to say that B.Y is just as well protected as Snake Dike and many other routes in the area. Why is there no thread about how many more people could enjoy the hike if they weren't afraid of running it out.

Also, where would this desire to protect routes stop? I bet Evilution would see about a bazillion ascents if it were bolted...Should Ambrosia be bolted? Beautiful and the Damned??

The fact is that there are more labels than just trad sport bouldering wall alpine...blah blah blah... Scary trad...highball...runout...none of these things are exactly built in to the Route, (just take some binoc's to the South face of Half Dome...thanks top down) but it is just how it goes sometimes. If any of the said buttermilk boulders were in my hometown they would be bolted for sure...

Now..the argument of "does the fa get the right to that chunk of rock.."

That stirs me..because it seems like it only works one way...who's right is it to chop a bolt off of a protectable crack? Whatabout the local "toprope .13 cracks" that everyone is bouldering at my local spot...are we all super sick soloers sending 18' finger cracks? Or are we just bouldering?


I guess that is a different argument all together though...

I bet it gets climbed more than you think. There are lots of strong climbers these days doing worse than that. They just don't write storie about it for Climbing Magazine to let everyone in Boulder know.

Hey SHAWN, read rule #1

I love the OP's topic, I like his question, and the route kicks ass. I enjoyed where the thread started and hearing tid bits of history from people like Hank, I wish I could hear some more history bits and stories from people that have climbed the route and people that know of ascents of it. Not seperate tangent topics, although there is a good discussion going on here and probably deserves its own topic, it is like most forums off topic. So chill out buddy, I just posted some ??????????'s I was hoping to hear some more good stories like were the thread started.

I've already given my opinion of how many times a year I think it gets climbed, 5 or so.

Bachar did put up the route as a kind of response to some of the rap bolted or at least sport climbs that were being put up at the time in Tuolumne. In addition, Edging Skills or Hospital Bills at East Cottage which has no bolts right next to sport routes, maybe this answers a bit about soloed routes not getting bolted though it probably depends on the area, there is another 300' route near Magical Mystery Tour on Fairview Dome that he also put up as a solo that still has not fixed gear.

As others have said, if it was well bolted yes it would be a spectacular route and loads of people would do it, but in the end they would just remember having climbed a cool 3 pitch line and not much more. It would be more memorable than the other nearby lines because those are short half rope length affairs.

As far as R or X, I feel it belongs somewhere in the middle.

• R-Means what? I take it to mean that there is a good chance that you will get hurt if you fall, length of fall does not matter.

• X-You will get hurt and likely not be walking. Death possible.

I feel incredibly lucky that I was able to see a JB slide-show mere weeks before his death. He expressed his reasons for doing the BY and for the style he did it in. All I can say is that he is on (was sadly) a plane way far above most of us. I hope someday to do the line for myself and try to get in touch with what made that group of hero's do what they did. Despite so many dude attempts to shrug off the boldness of the line for whatever reason, I remain in awe.

I'm not arguing to do anything to this climb. There are those who enjoy R/X routes...fine there is something for everyone in life.

However, I disagree that I wouldn't enjoy it more (or less) if it was bolted. How the hell does anyone know what any other climber would enjoy. This is always thrown out that there, that EVERYONE would like it better and remember it if a climb is runout or dangerous. Not everyone enjoys this type of climbing and I actually would remember this specific climb more if it had a few more bolts - simply because I might want to climb it. I don't enjoy routes for the runout nature, but the position, the movement, the adventure, who I was with, if I was able to send or not, etc...

For others though it would totally "ruin" the route. Like I said NOT arguing to do anything other than leave it alone. There should be routes out there for everyones taste, even if some don't care for the risks involved.