By Jason D. Martin Feb 7, 2008
| As many of you know, I'm currently laid up. My injury has kept me out of the mountains for almost two months. But that doesn't keep me from keeping my ear to the ground... ...and the ground has some disturbing news. Reports are coming in that there is a NEW BOLT on CAT IN THE HAT. Apparently the bolt is above the normal protection bolt on the slab pitch of Cat. The rumor is that there is still dust on the rock. The bolt is brand spanking new. Now I'm not one to get into bolt wars. But Cat in the Hat is a really old and classic climb. It bothers me a bit that people are adding bolts to such a route. So the question of the hour is, who will join the bolt removal committee? I still have another month before I get to go back out and enjoy the desert. Perhaps somebody will take it upon themselves to deal with this blight before then. Jason |  FLAG |
By Greg Barnes Feb 7, 2008
| Leaving the bolts on Olive Oil and Tunnel Vision for long periods then chopping sent a real mixed message. This one should be removed right away. Sounds like whoever did it didn't even know enough to clean the dust - if you get a very light rain after the dust is sitting on the rock, it can permanently stain the rock (depending on rock type, etc - I've seen it on granite where lichen is probably killed by it). We spent half the time it took us to rebolt Black Velvet wall cleaning the white dust off the black holds. |  FLAG |
By Andrew Carson From Wilson, WY Feb 7, 2008
| I know exactly who did it, and my advice is to leave it alone. Alot of thought went into the placement, and the people involved will surprise you. For my part, I think it's a good thing that they decided to add a pro bolt at a place where I've seen at least one nasty fall by a person lulled into thinking it was "easy" fifth, within their range of ability. Let the conversation continue a little bit and see how it develops before starting a senseless chopping episode. I am pretty certain the bolt will be replaced in any case. Go climb and enjoy the day! |  FLAG |
By SAL From broomdigiddy Feb 7, 2008
| So is this bolt on the last pitch above the final spectacular black crack? I have only done the route once. I recall their being a bolt on that slab above the crack. Was another one added there? |  FLAG |
By Andrew Carson From Wilson, WY Feb 7, 2008
| Yup. Before you gain the short crack leading to the end/rap station. |  FLAG |
By Darren in Vegas From Las Vegas, NV Feb 7, 2008
| I don't really think that it is okay to add a bolt, unless you have the first ascentionist's blessing. So if the FA party did not approve, it should go. |  FLAG |
By SAL From broomdigiddy Feb 7, 2008
| Andrew Carson wrote: Yup. Before you gain the short crack leading to the end/rap station. Intresting. I wont say that I did not wish there was another bolt there at the time but after pushing through that run out and gaining the anchors I was sort of glad it was not there. It is always easy to wish for bolts when your gripped and tired. It added a great spice and challenge to the end of a great climb. I would vote for it to be removed only for the fact that it is not "necessary" and the fall is not a death fall. I agree that the one's with the FA should have the say. what was the whipper ratio there that would warrant adding a bolt? |  FLAG |
By caughtinside From Oakland CA Feb 7, 2008
| Andrew Carson wrote: I know exactly who did it, and my advice is to leave it alone. Alot of thought went into the placement, and the people involved will surprise you. For my part, I think it's a good thing that they decided to add a pro bolt at a place where I've seen at least one nasty fall by a person lulled into thinking it was "easy" fifth, within their range of ability. Let the conversation continue a little bit and see how it develops before starting a senseless chopping episode. I am pretty certain the bolt will be replaced in any case. Go climb and enjoy the day! Sorry, that is not very persuasive at all. |  FLAG |
By Matt McMurray From Castle Rock, CO Feb 7, 2008
| Darren Snipes wrote: I don't really think that it is okay to add a bolt, unless you have the first ascentionist's blessing. So if the FA party did not approve, it should go. I second Darren's comment. The FA should have the final say in how the route is altered. That alleviates a lot of the arguing about what should be bolted. |  FLAG |
By Larry DeAngelo Administrator Feb 7, 2008
| Andrew Carson wrote: ... Alot of thought went into the placement,... This seems like an obvious case for removal-- so why don't you outline the lots of thought you think indicates it should stay? |  FLAG |
By Larry DeAngelo Administrator Feb 7, 2008
| In case the reasons against such a bolt are not obvious, here are a few: 1. The route has been ascended countless times without the need for a bolt. This includes a huge number of novice parties. 2. The existing bolt (from the FA) provides an easy retreat point if you are not up to the climbing above. 3. The presence of an additional bolt substantially changes the character of the route and dilutes the experience. And keep in mind, this experience has been a significant "rite of passage" for many up-and-coming climbers over the last thirty years. 4. It is illegal. (I mean-- what WERE you thinking???) |  FLAG |
By Tea Feb 7, 2008
| fer cripes sake..it's 5.6! It's not THAT runout either...what a shame. Another classic sterilized under the shield of "safety". Sad times we're livin in...sad times indeed. CHOPPA-CHOPPA! |  FLAG |
By Marc H From Lafayette, CO Feb 7, 2008
| I've climbed the route and remember that last pitch being a little exciting. I would hate to think that subsequent climbers would miss out on the excitement that I experienced. I did not feel like the route was unsafe whatsoever. IMO, if the FA party does not condone the bolt and if there is no committee that approved the placement of the bolt, it definitely needs to go! --Marc |  FLAG |
By Marc H From Lafayette, CO Feb 7, 2008
| Andrew Carson wrote: I know exactly who did it, and my advice is to leave it alone.
Andrew Carson wrote: Let the conversation continue a little bit and see how it develops before starting a senseless chopping episode. So is your advice to leave it alone and let other people do whatever the hell they want, as long as they put "a lot of thought..into the placement"? Or is your advice to continue the conversation?
Andrew Carson wrote: A lot of thought went into the placement, and the people involved will surprise you. I read: "None of you are as smart as the people that decided to place the bolt; don't even try."
Andrew Carson wrote: For my part, I think it's a good thing that they decided to add a pro bolt at a place where I've seen at least one nasty fall by a person lulled into thinking it was "easy" fifth, within their range of ability. I read: "Let's just grid bolt every piece of rock where someone has taken a nasty fall." Or maybe, "Lead climbing is too dangerous; it should be banned."
Andrew Carson wrote: I am pretty certain the bolt will be replaced in any case. This is one of the worst arguments ever. I put it in the same category as the everyone-agrees-with-me argument.
Andrew wrote: Go climb and enjoy the day! What are you doing here? --Marc |  FLAG |
By SAL From broomdigiddy Feb 7, 2008
| Marc Horan wrote: I've climbed the route and remember that last pitch being a little exciting. I would hate to think that subsequent climbers would miss out on the excitement that I experienced. I did not feel like the route was unsafe whatsoever. IMO, if the FA party do not condone the bolt and if there is no committee that approved the placement of the bolt, it definitely needs to go! --Marc I agree with this aswell. I did state that I was wishing somthing was there but was glad it was not. It was a big step for my climbing and i will remember that moment for a long time. Larry DeAngelo wrote: Administrator 29 minutes ago In case the reasons against such a bolt are not obvious, here are a few: 1. The route has been ascended countless times without the need for a bolt. This includes a huge number of novice parties. The above is a good enough reason to remove the bolt. not necessary to do the route, nor necessary to stay alive. |  FLAG |
By Greg Barnes Feb 7, 2008
| Andrew, would you please tell us exactly who did it? If not, please email Larry, widely known as a pillar of the local climbing community, with that information. Thank you. |  FLAG |
By Guy H. From Fort Collins CO Feb 7, 2008
| I thought the mild run-out at the top of 'Cat in the Hat' really added to the experience. The bolt should get yanked. Not every route needs to super-safe, not every experience needs to be sanitized... |  FLAG |
By Michael Kimm From Las Vegas, NV Feb 7, 2008
| The bolt shouldn't have been added, for all the reasons people have pointed out, but I think it good to reemphesize one of them: IT'S ILLEGAL. More importantly, the CLC and other local groups are still working with the BLM to refine the bolting plan for the canyons in Red Rock, and this rogue bolting is an example of behavior that can limit the potential for new, legal lines. In closing, don't retrobolt such a classic when it's perfectly safe. Makes no sense. |  FLAG |
By Andrew Carson From Wilson, WY Feb 7, 2008
| Because of the stance of the blm regarding bolting, I would never post names on this or any site. The bolters fall exactly within the accepted parameters sited above. Go ahead and chop it, though, if it makes you feel better. I don't know Larry and therefore could not pass on those names to him, either. Once the cat is out of the bag, who knows what might happen? |  FLAG |
By Larry DeAngelo Administrator Feb 7, 2008
| Andrew Carson wrote: ... The bolters fall exactly within the accepted parameters sited above. ... What does this mean? |  FLAG |
By Andrew Carson From Wilson, WY Feb 7, 2008
| One more thought. Larry is indeed a well known local. I'd be happy to talk with him by phone and bring him up to speed. While it might bring me more calls than I want, my number, Larry, is ###. (Hi climbers -- took my number out, as Larry called. You can find me in the phone book in Wilson, WY if you want, or drop me a note.) |  FLAG |
By Monomaniac Administrator From Morrison, CO Feb 7, 2008
| Larry DeAngelo wrote: What does this mean? I'm guessing this means the FA party did it. Uh oh, I think I hear the BLM SWAT choppers warming up... |  FLAG |
By Doug Hemken Administrator Feb 7, 2008
| Andrew Carson wrote: The bolters fall exactly within the accepted parameters sited [sic] above. Which is to say that the retro-bolters are the first-ascentionists or have the permission of the first-ascensionists. You know, with a route as old, well-known, and frequently climbed as "Cat in the Hat" it's no longer just up to the first ascentionists: it's communal property, not personal property (morally, legally its government property). I'm grateful I got to see it before it had another hole punched in it. Those moves are/were a good example of a climbing problem you encounter a lot in Red Rock. Now that pitch will no longer be a benchmark to measure your judgment and abilities by. I'm sorry someone got hurt there, but I don't think the lesson you should draw is that everyone who hasn't gotten hurt was just lucky and that Mescalito needs to be (further) subdued. [If it wasn't Jason who kicked this off, I'd call it the troll of the week! Hope you're getting stronger, Jason!] |  FLAG |
By Darren in Vegas From Las Vegas, NV Feb 7, 2008
| Doug Hemken wrote: You know, with a route as old, well-known, and frequently climbed as "Cat in the Hat" it's no longer just up to the first ascentionists: I disagree with this. |  FLAG |
By Jason D. Martin Feb 7, 2008
| I don't think it matters how often the bolt goes back in. The route has too much of a history. It will get removed every time. Sucks that some dumbass wants to start a bolt war by messing with one of the most heavily traveled routes in Red Rock. With the BLM monitoring our activity and with the development of a wilderness climbing plan on the table, we really don't need that right now. Jason |  FLAG |
By Marc H From Lafayette, CO Feb 7, 2008
| Doug Hemken wrote: You know, with a route as old, well-known, and frequently climbed as "Cat in the Hat" it's no longer just up to the first ascentionists: it's communal property, not personal property (morally, legally its government property).
Darren Snipes wrote: I disagree with this. It seems to me that if there is no RR committee to make decisions about retro-bolting routes than it has to be left up to the first-ascentionists. However, if there is currently a moratorium on bolts in RR, then that supersedes even the latter guideline. I'm definitely not a local to RR, or even an expert. My comments are intended to be all-encompassing. --Marc |  FLAG |
|